Home Match Day Thread 26/12/2020 L1 OUFC v AFC Wimbledon

Whilst I would like us to procure a bespoke left fullback as much as the next fan, I hope none of us lose sight of the fact that Josh Ruffels has essentially been filling in there for the past two seasons and by no means becomes dispensable. Whilst we have a log-jam in midfield, he was making a pretty good career there before the move to LB was enforced, and covers several positions as a utility. He deserves a further contract (and a chance at a midfield spot if replaced!) as such.
A chance at a midfield spot!? 😅 Jesus wept. If Josh Ruffels is in our midfield, we know we are going backwards..
 
A chance at a midfield spot!? 😅 Jesus wept. If Josh Ruffels is in our midfield, we know we are going backwards..
You haven't seen him play there for two years. How do you know he's a worse bet than Forde, Sykes, Hanson, for a bench spot?

Your argument suggests you'd release or transfer him as soon as he is replaced at left-back.
 
I do wonder after watching Jack Stevens brilliant keeping display, whether KR feels that he should have replaced Eastwood much earlier.
The calls from just about every Oxford fan went on for weeks/months before he finally did it. Since then, the results have come on the back of some solid goalkeeping displays.
I think Robinson tries hard not to react to outside pressures but it seems to me that this was one of a few that he Mis-judged.
 
Or maybe Steven's has come in just as the defense in front of him has tightened up considerably?
Another thought, probably heretical. is that why United were having troubles in the second half was because Wimbledon played rather well?
 
I must have watched a different game yesterday. Josh Ruffel's performance was certainly no worse than the other defenders but I don't see them getting a forensic analysis of their game.

Elliott Moore didn't play the offside line well at all which let Wimbledon get in at least 3 times and cleared poorly from the area on a few occasions.

Rob Atkinson ran down dead ends a couple of times with the ball which put us in trouble. He also misjudged a fair few headers and not clearing the ball.

Sam Long let the ball get past him and crossed in when we were under major pressure. He also gave the ball away like the others in some bad areas.

The midfield gave away the ball numerous times in really bad positions with poor passing/control with Alex Gorrin being particularly guilty of this including it leading to his booking.

I say this not particularly to highlight the others but to highlight that their play was worse than the stuff Josh Ruffel is being picked up for.

Can Josh Ruffel be better than currently yes but then we know he can play far better as he did last season when he was Mr Dependable. This season hasn't helped with his injury, the defence at times changing game to game, the stop start nature of the season and having to play with makeshift players, and Shodipo (who isn't good defensively so far), on the left until Obita signed. It can't have helped with his confidence at all.

And we have cover at left back now with Jordan Obita especially if KR signs another left midfielder along the lines of Marcus Browne.

Edit: He has also been part of a defence that has just kept 4 clean sheets in 5 games. And in some of those games Jack Stevens didn't need to do much at all.
 
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Or maybe Steven's has come in just as the defense in front of him has tightened up considerably?
Another thought, probably heretical. is that why United were having troubles in the second half was because Wimbledon played rather well?

Agreed on Wimbledon. While we made mistakes, Wimbledon kept the pressure on us, closed down/pressured well and played some decent stuff at times.

On Stevens, I think he helped the defence tighten up being vocal with instructions to the defence and sweeping behind, both things that aren't, it seems, natural to Easty.
 
I must have watched a different game yesterday. Josh Ruffel's performance was certainly no worse than the other defenders but I don't see them getting a forensic analysis of their game.

Elliott Moore didn't play the offside line well at all which let Wimbledon get in at least 3 times and cleared poorly from the area on a few occasions.

Rob Atkinson ran down dead ends a couple of times with the ball which put us in trouble. He also misjudged a fair few headers and not clearing the ball.

Sam Long let the ball get past him and crossed in when we were under major pressure. He also gave the ball away like the others in some bad areas.

The midfield gave away the ball numerous times in really bad positions with poor passing/control with Alex Gorrin being particularly guilty of this including it leading to his booking.

I say this not particularly to highlight the others but to highlight that their play was worse than the stuff Josh Ruffel is being picked up for.

Can Josh Ruffel be better than currently yes but then we know he can play far better as he did last season when he was Mr Dependable. This season hasn't helped with his injury, the defence at times changing game to game, the stop start nature of the season and having to play with makeshift players, and Shodipo (who isn't good defensively so far), on the left until Obita signed. It can't have helped with his confidence at all.

And we have cover at left back now with Jordan Obita especially if KR signs another left midfielder along the lines of Marcus Browne.
But his performance was worse than the other defenders. Sometimes different players play better or worse than others, it’s perfectly natural. It’s very rare for all four defenders to play exactly the same, as you’re suggesting - you’d expect to get at least some differential in performance level over a game. All four made mistakes against Wimbledon, but Ruffles was clearly the worst of the four. Wimbledon attacked a lot down our left (as many teams have this season) and he made a few glaring errors, and looked generally shaky. It’s not a personal attack on the man, it’s just an assessment of his performance.
 
Play To The Whistle. That double save from Stevens in the second half when our defenders were standing with their hands up appealing for offside instead of closing their guys down could have cost us big time. A lesson to be learned.
 
Play To The Whistle. That double save from Stevens in the second half when our defenders were standing with their hands up appealing for offside instead of closing their guys down could have cost us big time. A lesson to be learned.
But tbf their player was offside but we were always told to play to the whistle
 
But his performance was worse than the other defenders. Sometimes different players play better or worse than others, it’s perfectly natural. It’s very rare for all four defenders to play exactly the same, as you’re suggesting - you’d expect to get at least some differential in performance level over a game. All four made mistakes against Wimbledon, but Ruffles was clearly the worst of the four. Wimbledon attacked a lot down our left (as many teams have this season) and he made a few glaring errors, and looked generally shaky. It’s not a personal attack on the man, it’s just an assessment of his performance.

Disagree on Ruffels being worse than the others. Teams may just attack down our left as their right side is their strongest side (ie. Hull with Wilks or Blackpool with CJ Hamilton) and it is nothing particularly to do with Josh Ruffels or whomever else is left back. It could also be that if they are targetting the left as the left midfielder (ie.Shodipo or Agyei) aren't the best defensively but can be a threat going forward. Furthermore, if teams are targetting Josh Ruffels, they aren't doing a very good job of it recently or Josh Ruffels is doing better than suggested by some as the opposition have scored 1 in 5 games (and that was Hull).

And I wasn't suggesting all players have the same level of performance, I was pointing out the weaknesses the others had in the game. After all if Josh Ruffels is going to be analysed and in some cases (not accusing you) slammed, then the others need to be looked at in the same light. Elliott Moore* caused more problems yesterday with his getting the offside line wrong for instance as well as a fair few more poor clearances from our box than JR.

*To add I do think Elliott Moore is an excellent player and a definite starter for us. I am not suggesting we sign a replacement as others have with Josh Ruffels.
 
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It was great to see the reflexes of Stevens and his agility. From what KR said in interview it is all the more remarkable as he has personal problems and had to overcome a recent death in the family.
 
Bit of a strange game I thought, if Matty Taylor had shot instead of passed, and later when McGuane could have sidefooted it in we could have won 4.0 and Stevens would still have got mom.
 
You haven't seen him play there for two years. How do you know he's a worse bet than Forde, Sykes, Hanson, for a bench spot?

Your argument suggests you'd release or transfer him as soon as he is replaced at left-back.
Because if he was a good midfielder, he would have played there? We’ve had several periods of players being injured and not once has he been brought into the midfield. I would really hope that as a club, we aren’t in a place where we need to make desperate decisions like that.

Would I release or sell him? No. He would definitely benefit from the competition though. I think we can definitely do better and so can Josh.
 
Because if he was a good midfielder, he would have played there? We’ve had several periods of players being injured and not once has he been brought into the midfield. I would really hope that as a club, we aren’t in a place where we need to make desperate decisions like that.

Would I release or sell him? No. He would definitely benefit from the competition though. I think we can definitely do better and so can Josh.

Because...

....we haven't had a better option at left-back?

It isn't a 'desperate decision', he is a midfielder by trade.

Still, at least we're agreed - a squad place and a better left-back it is.
 
Disagree on Ruffels being worse than the others. Teams may just attack down our left as their right side is their strongest side (ie. Hull with Wilks or Blackpool with CJ Hamilton) and it is nothing particularly to do with Josh Ruffels or whomever else is left back. It could also be that if they are targetting the left as the left midfielder (ie.Shodipo or Agyei) aren't the best defensively but can be a threat going forward. Furthermore, if teams are targetting Josh Ruffels, they aren't doing a very good job of it recently or Josh Ruffels is doing better than suggested by some as the opposition have scored 1 in 5 games (and that was Hull).

And I wasn't suggesting all players have the same level of performance, I was pointing out the weaknesses the others had in the game. After all if Josh Ruffels is going to be analysed and in some cases (not accusing you) slammed, then the others need to be looked at in the same light. Elliott Moore* caused more problems yesterday with his getting the offside line wrong for instance as well as a fair few more poor clearances from our box than JR.

*To add I do think Elliott Moore is an excellent player and a definite starter for us. I am not suggesting we sign a replacement as others have with Josh Ruffels.
A good, detailed post and I agree with a lot of what you’ve said.

Yes sometimes teams attack more down one side than the other, but also attacks work more down one side if the full back is poorly positioned. I guess it’s a bit of a chicken and egg scenario, hard to say sometimes.

Against Wimbeldon the left midfielder was Obita who is great defensively, tracks back, and offers a hell of a lot more protection than Henry did on the right - yet still they got way more joy down our left, so that excuse wasn’t there this game.

One thing that I’ve seen a few times recently and I don’t understand or agree with is this idea that because we haven’t conceded a goal, a certain defender must have been playing well or at least not too bad. If, after a half of football (this is a hypothetical but realistic scenario, I’m not saying exactly this happened) your full back has been repeatedly skinned, given the ball away, out of position, given away soft fouls, not closed down crosses, but due to a combination of poor crossing/finishing from the opposition, luck, great goalkeeping and heroic blocks from your centre backs you still haven’t conceded, you can criticise that full back, you don’t have to say “Well, we didn’t concede so no problems here I guess!” Football is a team sport but there are also individual performances - you can also win 6-0 with your striker having a stinker.
 
A good, detailed post and I agree with a lot of what you’ve said.

Yes sometimes teams attack more down one side than the other, but also attacks work more down one side if the full back is poorly positioned. I guess it’s a bit of a chicken and egg scenario, hard to say sometimes.

Against Wimbeldon the left midfielder was Obita who is great defensively, tracks back, and offers a hell of a lot more protection than Henry did on the right - yet still they got way more joy down our left, so that excuse wasn’t there this game.

One thing that I’ve seen a few times recently and I don’t understand or agree with is this idea that because we haven’t conceded a goal, a certain defender must have been playing well or at least not too bad. If, after a half of football (this is a hypothetical but realistic scenario, I’m not saying exactly this happened) your full back has been repeatedly skinned, given the ball away, out of position, given away soft fouls, not closed down crosses, but due to a combination of poor crossing/finishing from the opposition, luck, great goalkeeping and heroic blocks from your centre backs you still haven’t conceded, you can criticise that full back, you don’t have to say “Well, we didn’t concede so no problems here I guess!” Football is a team sport but there are also individual performances - you can also win 6-0 with your striker having a stinker.

I'd argue that Josh Ruffels has played against 2 of either the most in form or best right midfielders in the last 5 games (Hamilton and Wilks) and not got skinned on a regular basis. If that is being claimed then Sam Long got skinned, was out of position etc yesterday. He has made errors, of course as have the others and by all means look at them. My point is that the others defenders and others defending have to be looked at with equal scrutiny. Some others on here appear to be blaming the defensive problems of yesterday all on him or claiming poor positioning (as though that is standard for him) etc etc yet he was a key part of our getting to the Play off final last season (including having good games against PL/Championship teams). Also, lets not forget he has played well over 100 L1 games at left back for us. Can he do better yes but then the same can be said for all the players. As you can guess, Josh Ruffels is an important part of the team for me and by playing will get back to his usual high standards (ie last season).

You can criticise the full back in your example but as that hasn't been the case with Josh Ruffels then it isn't really relevant. :)
 
I'd argue that Josh Ruffels has played against 2 of either the most in form or best right midfielders in the last 5 games (Hamilton and Wilks) and not got skinned on a regular basis. If that is being claimed then Sam Long got skinned, was out of position etc yesterday. He has made errors, of course as have the others and by all means look at them. My point is that the others defenders and others defending have to be looked at with equal scrutiny. Some others on here appear to be blaming the defensive problems of yesterday all on him or claiming poor positioning (as though that is standard for him) etc etc yet he was a key part of our getting to the Play off final last season (including having good games against PL/Championship teams). Also, lets not forget he has played well over 100 L1 games at left back for us. Can he do better yes but then the same can be said for all the players. As you can guess, Josh Ruffels is an important part of the team for me and by playing will get back to his usual high standards (ie last season).

You can criticise the full back in your example but as that hasn't been the case with Josh Ruffels then it isn't really relevant. :)
Ruffels has been skinned on a regular basis this season though. Yes he’s been good, if not excellent for us previously, turning out 7/10 performances most games, with the occasional 8/10 thrown in there. However, the past seasons are irrelevant now (eg your argument that he’s been a key figure previously etc) - this season, he’s been very poor, almost disastrously at times. The very fact that you say he will get back to his usual high standards shows that you’re accepting he hasn’t been good recently. And couldn’t you make exactly the same arguments for keeping Simon Eastwood in the team - he’s been good for us before, it’s the defences fault as well, etc etc - and yet look what happened when you take him out of the team. What’s the difference between Eastwood and Ruffels? Why can Josh put in 3/4/5 out of 10 performances every game and yet not be dropped?

And the previous point was relevant, as it showed that your argument that ‘as we haven’t been conceding goals, so Ruffels can’t be playing poorly’, is wrong. Ruffels has been playing poorly all season, and should be dropped.
 
Disagree on Ruffels being worse than the others. Teams may just attack down our left as their right side is their strongest side (ie. Hull with Wilks or Blackpool with CJ Hamilton) and it is nothing particularly to do with Josh Ruffels or whomever else is left back. It could also be that if they are targetting the left as the left midfielder (ie.Shodipo or Agyei) aren't the best defensively but can be a threat going forward. Furthermore, if teams are targetting Josh Ruffels, they aren't doing a very good job of it recently or Josh Ruffels is doing better than suggested by some as the opposition have scored 1 in 5 games (and that was Hull).

And I wasn't suggesting all players have the same level of performance, I was pointing out the weaknesses the others had in the game. After all if Josh Ruffels is going to be analysed and in some cases (not accusing you) slammed, then the others need to be looked at in the same light. Elliott Moore* caused more problems yesterday with his getting the offside line wrong for instance as well as a fair few more poor clearances from our box than JR.

*To add I do think Elliott Moore is an excellent player and a definite starter for us. I am not suggesting we sign a replacement as others have with Josh Ruffels.

Teams definitely target our left side....and Gorrin. With Gorrin having to playing such a large role (on the ball and plugging gaps) if you can disrupt him you can mess up our defensive shape. Gorrin’s weakness (relative to the rest of his game) is his passing...get pressure on him and you can create errors.

Not to criticise either players (I especially love Gorrin!) but if you were to create a plan against us, pressuring Gorrin and Ruffels would be it...you certainly wouldn’t sit off and allow us possession up to the half way line attempting a low block as Northampton did and Wimbledon attempted for ~20mins
 
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