Home Match Day Thread 19/09/20 L1 - OUFC v Sunderland

[Scotchegg]

Time for a little reflection, and as you might expect, a slightly less negative look at things.

Don't get me wrong, we have been poor this season, and from the playoffs. A number of players that were nailed on starters last season are struggling. Henry and Taylor were the leagues best players in February/March but have been anonymous so far. Brannagan seems weighed down by expectation and isn't playing as freely as he can. Moore looked as good as Dickie at the end of last season, but appears to struggle with a more senior role. Ruffels and Gorrin are out, Long is being moved everywhere, Sykes frustrates more than excites, and the new players have struggled to make an impression.

However, these are not bad players. Robinson talking of some leaving will be as much about getting a reaction as it is around wholesale moves. Talk on here about Clare, Atkinson or Long being moved on is just crazy. However, Sykes significantly upped his game last season in a similar situation and we could again be questioning his position.

No game this mid week should help. Robinson denied it, but I think the playoff defeat still sits very heavily on a number of our players, particularly Henry. We need to find a way to finally move on and allow this team to play with the confidence and freedom that we know they're capable of. For all his faults, Mackie was a huge character in our squad and got people believing in themselves. Brannagan is great, and he will grow into a great captain but he needs help from a squad that was silent from the 47th minute on yesterday.

This is a time to dig in and find the strength and believe to move forward. We are better than this, and we will show that both in the way of performances and results.

Everything will be ok!

 

[Victor1986]

Good posts especially ryaniobirdio. Accrington takes on huge significance.

 

[horseman]

Most were happy with the constant filling of the first 11 with Loans, Most were Happy to get the money for Dickie rather than keep a squad together and have a go for a few seasons and then wonder why things appear allover the place after a few games.
Many were predicting defeat pre match so why the post mortem when most of you expected it anyway?

It does seem that our team are not allowed a poor performance or lose a game of football without this place going crazy. what next return to personal insulting of our Manager?

 

[Mad Dog]

​

Time for a little reflection, and as you might expect, a slightly less negative look at things.

Don't get me wrong, we have been poor this season, and from the playoffs. A number of players that were nailed on starters last season are struggling. Henry and Taylor were the leagues best players in February/March but have been anonymous so far. Brannagan seems weighed down by expectation and isn't playing as freely as he can. Moore looked as good as Dickie at the end of last season, but appears to struggle with a more senior role. Ruffels and Gorrin are out, Long is being moved everywhere, Sykes frustrates more than excites, and the new players have struggled to make an impression.

However, these are not bad players. Robinson talking of some leaving will be as much about getting a reaction as it is around wholesale moves. Talk on here about Clare, Atkinson or Long being moved on is just crazy. However, Sykes significantly upped his game last season in a similar situation and we could again be questioning his position.

No game this mid week should help. Robinson denied it, but I think the playoff defeat still sits very heavily on a number of our players, particularly Henry. We need to find a way to finally move on and allow this team to play with the confidence and freedom that we know they're capable of. For all his faults, Mackie was a huge character in our squad and got people believing in themselves. Brannagan is great, and he will grow into a great captain but he needs help from a squad that was silent from the 47th minute on yesterday.

This is a time to dig in and find the strength and believe to move forward. We are better than this, and we will show that both in the way of performances and results.

Everything will be ok!

Fair points Scotchers, but there's too many rookies and snowflakes in this squad, who don't know the league, are unfit, too small and flimsy, or don't even have any experience of full time professional senior football at all, and without true leaders and senior professionals in the squad, who have been in the trenches and know what it takes to succeed at this level, and know how to fight and rally their team mates, we're gonna struggle.

These are the same problems which ultimately cost us promotion last season. We clearly had talent and quality in the squad, but once players got injured or suspended, we didn't have adequate back up, and had to start playing players out of position, and when the going got tough, we didn't have enough leaders in the squad to rally the troupes and get us over the line, and it cost us promotion.

This season, I fear we are in an even weaker position, and Robbo has to recognise this and correct it, before the window closes.

 

[bazzer9461]

Not a right back a centre back whose just a better option then anyone else we got.

He’s done alright a right back certainly better than Clare

 

[arthurturner]

Would be nice if the management help to their hands and said, you know what, we for it wrong. Parts b Lincoln was wrong and lots today was wrong.

Instead we get first year pro’s thrown under the bus.

We get players from a few games to numerous saying they are threat of being moved on.

We get Sunday team meetings publicly announced.

Scouse mentality by Robinson...

Would be nice if you read your comments before posting. I suppose missing schooling during lockdown hasn't helped your grasp of grammar. Finally, "Scouse mentality by Robinson" is just insulting. Get a grip, boy.

 

[bazzer9461]

Apparently KR always has a post match conversation with Tiger. Having just signed up for the next 4 years twisting Tiger's arm for another £1m is a lot cheaper than giving KR... "a vote of confidence" so I would suggest we may see a lot of activity this week - in as well as out! Clare though does look like a big mistake.

But wasn’t Clare the 2nd choice after O’Donnell

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

Good post. I totally agree about our defence. I’ve been open about my thoughts about long and ruffles and been shot to pieces over it too. But I was hopeful Clare would be good and we were looking for a left back. I was also impressed with Atkinson Pre season But should he be under so much pressure? If I had one defence ;-) of them I would say we’re missing Gorrin who looks like the only midfielder who can play that defensive role.

What I find just a unnerving is our midfield be that centre or wide. Gorrin, Brannagan are the two stand outs but look beyond that and it’s all a bit iffy Sykes and Forde Look like good players who are looking for their role in the team? Inconsistent and a bit lost. Cooper I would say has potential but he’s in the first team in a new country with pressure on his shoulders. Maybe will come good But not ready right now. But the rest blimey! Hanson, McGuane, Kelly, Napa (Yes him). Add the fact that Henry is playing like something is up with him ever since lockdown?
We also have the rawness of Agyei, Asonganyi and Osei again they may come good but first teamers?

its a bloody mess.

We have two forwards who if we put them up for sale would hold interest from every club in this league and some above. But we can’t seem to create Jack s**t for them!

Ruffles and Long are both steady defenders at league 1 level. Really there are much , much more pressing concerns. I would have preferred Long rb and Ruffs lb yesterday .

 

[Yellow There!]

What worries me most about our back four is we have a defender/midfielder (Clare), a decent CB (Moore), a new boy (Atkinson) though he should be given a chance, and a right back on the left (Long). Need an out and out CB or another left back!

 

[Oxford84]

So true.

I like Robinson, but for a manager with more than a decades experience, sometimes his naivety astounds me. He seems to completely overlook the basic necessity of needing a strong, settled backline.

Can you imagine Mapp starting a season with a squad of defenders as inexperienced as this?!?

For me, with Mous ageing and injured, Ruffels injured, Long and Moore not yet the finished article, Atkinson a complete novice at this level, and Jones obviously too inexperienced, and apparently not deemed good enough anyway, I think we need to bring in 2 experienced senior CB, as Moore and Atkinson are simply not ready to be first choice pairing yet, and we also need genuine competition/cover for Ruffs and Long, and if that means we have to get a few players off the books in order to do it, then so be it.

At this level, if you want success, you need experience, character, strength and aggression, as well as quality, but right now, there's too much inexperience, and a lack of quality, fitness and physicality in this squad, that you only get from established, senior players, and it needs addressing ASAP

He didnt say Jones wasnt good enough,he said he wasnt ready,so much so that local non league sides didnt want to take him as a loan.A 17 year old is ok for a game or 2 but not to play week in week out and solve the problem we have now,which is inexperienced central defenders.

 

[westyorkshireexile]

Most were happy with the constant filling of the first 11 with Loans, Most were Happy to get the money for Dickie rather than keep a squad together and have a go for a few seasons and then wonder why things appear allover the place after a few games.
Many were predicting defeat pre match so why the post mortem when most of you expected it anyway?

It does seem that our team are not allowed a poor performance or lose a game of football without this place going crazy. what next return to personal insulting of our Manager?

But it wasn't just a poor performance, it was disjointed shite by a team devoid of confidence lacking even the most basic skills required at this ĺevel.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Ian Atkins.. Smith was a rigid 442 man!

Yes, but for the odd random game, or just first half, he tried it. Atkins at least played it consistently

 

[uptheus]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Gorrin was the single most influential player last season. His ability to intercept forward passes and distribute to the flanks was second to none. That combined with dropping back to assist the defence made him incredibly versatile and allowed the rest of the team to thrive. Sure we had more quality in other areas too but he was the link between defence and attack and did it flawlessly for the most part.
He cannot return from injury fast enough.

I think he will help the situation, but I think there are a number of issues to resolve which Gorrin alone won’t fix.

The defence situation needs addressing urgently. It’s poor right across the back four. There’s no leadership here, and desperately requires experience and players who can actually play in these positions. The fullbacks are well, not fullbacks, and the central pairing are not experienced enough. We also do not have cover in these positions either.

I said Kelly wasn’t the answer (too small), and unfortunately the likes of Brannagan and Henry are no where near their best. Brannagan hasn’t hit the levels he showed prior to his injury last season, and Henry’s legs look shot. Been saying that for a while re; Henry.

I’m not impressed with any of the new signings yet, especially Clare. Cooper looks laboured, McGuane doesn’t do enough for me, Osei Yaw, verdict’s stil out.

We desperately need an experience central defender, left back and a new right back. We also need pace on the wings.

Hall’s not the answer either. Forde’s got to start next weekend.

Starting team next weekend;
Eastwood,
Long, Moore, Atkinson, ?
Henry, Brannagan, Forde
Agyei, Taylor, Skyes

 

[werthersoriginal]

Sam Long - Not a good defender at this level, offers nothing going forward, is out of position so many times and offers attacking wingers who have the ability to get the ball into the box. HAS TO GO..
James Henry - Kept us up two seasons ago with his goals & outstanding contribution however his overall performance last season, during the play offs and in the few games this season are well below par. TIME TO GO
Simon Eastwood - I have always been his biggest fan and always will however his weaknesses and inconsistencies are causing our back 4 to panic. TIME FOR JACK STEVENS TO HAVE A RUN
Matty Taylor - No service, No goals, we created so many chances each game last season, a poacher like Matty has 20 - 25 goals in his sights, currently 10 or 12 goals this season is where we could end up.
New members of the team obviously have something to offer, however they need to Start producing.
AT PRESENT WE LOOK A WEAKER TEAM THAN LAST SEASON,.........

I think some of our fans have to go. NOT GOOD ENOUGH lacks mental strength

 

[QR]

We are and have to be a selling club and as such it gets really difficult to rise above a certain level as it's always one step forwards one step backwards. Dunkley, Nelson , Dickie and that's just the centre backs! . At some point you do become a worse team but hopefully only for a while if the manager can rebuild and buy wisely when the finances allow it.

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

I think he will help the situation, but I think there are a number of issues to resolve which Gorrin alone won’t fix.

The defence situation needs addressing urgently. It’s poor right across the back four. There’s no leadership here, and desperately requires experience and players who can actually play in these positions. The fullbacks are well, not fullbacks, and the central pairing are not experienced enough. We also do not have cover in these positions either.

I said Kelly wasn’t the answer (too small), and unfortunately the likes of Brannagan and Henry are no where near their best. Brannagan hasn’t hit the levels he showed prior to his injury last season, and Henry’s legs look shot. Been saying that for a while re; Henry.

I’m not impressed with any of the new signings yet, especially Clare. Cooper looks laboured, McGuane doesn’t do enough for me, Osei Yaw, verdict’s stil out.

We desperately need an experience central defender, left back and a new right back. We also need pace on the wings.

Hall’s not the answer either. Forde’s got to start next weekend.

Starting team next weekend;
Eastwood,
Long, Moore, Atkinson, ?
Henry, Brannagan, Forde
Agyei, Taylor, Skyes

Sykes left wing? No thank you

 

[Marked Ox]

I think he will help the situation, but I think there are a number of issues to resolve which Gorrin alone won’t fix.

The defence situation needs addressing urgently. It’s poor right across the back four. There’s no leadership here, and desperately requires experience and players who can actually play in these positions. The fullbacks are well, not fullbacks, and the central pairing are not experienced enough. We also do not have cover in these positions either.

I said Kelly wasn’t the answer (too small), and unfortunately the likes of Brannagan and Henry are no where near their best. Brannagan hasn’t hit the levels he showed prior to his injury last season, and Henry’s legs look shot. Been saying that for a while re; Henry.

I’m not impressed with any of the new signings yet, especially Clare. Cooper looks laboured, McGuane doesn’t do enough for me, Osei Yaw, verdict’s stil out.

We desperately need an experience central defender, left back and a new right back. We also need pace on the wings.

Hall’s not the answer either. Forde’s got to start next weekend.

Starting team next weekend;
Eastwood,
Long, Moore, Atkinson, ?
Henry, Brannagan, Forde
Agyei, Taylor, Skyes

Cooper was very good against Watford and gave the team balance which we definitely lacked yesterday. He will be up and down a bit considering he came from part time football at a lower level just like Sykes and Whyte.

Starting team:

Eastwood
Long Moore Atkinson Elechi
Henry Forde Brannagan
Sykes Taylor Cooper

Agyei to come on off the bench.

Hopefully we have some signings which will increase the options.

As an alternative (it won't happen though) for the defence:

Lofthouse Moore Atkinson Long

 

[OUFC94]

Some late night brain farts seeing as I’ve just finished a bunch of incredibly boring work nonsense:

The defence needs fixing. Badly. A reliable and trustworthy defence is essential to any moderately successful team because it allows the players further forward to free themselves. Your defence doesn’t just stop goals going in, it allows you to score more because of how they enable your midfield and attack to play. Moore has played around 25 EFL games and is now the senior centre back, Atkinson was in non-league until a few months ago, Sean Clare has barely played a game at right back in his life and is essentially being turned into one on the job, and Sam Long is a former centre back turned right back who is now being asked to play left back, because our left back who used to be a centre midfielder is injured. Meanwhile our 34 year old player-coach has done himself a mischief, and the manager claims that our teenage central defensive option is apparently so poor that even teams in non-league won’t touch him. That’s a situation we’ve created for ourselves, by signing these players and choosing not to sign others. If it’s rubbish it’s because we made it rubbish.

We barely had any defenders last season either - we had two right backs (until January when we then had one), three centre backs and one left back. Six defenders; five after Christmas. Atkinson joined in January but immediately went out on loan again and was only briefly recalled to sit on the bench for a couple of games. We somehow kept a clean bill of health bar Mousinho getting injured in late Feb, but then the pandemic shut everything down in early March before anything else happened that made it an issue. We then started this season with six defenders once again, only with Sean Clare instead of Chris Cadden and with Rob Atkinson instead of Rob Dickie. Two undeniable downgrades in terms of the here and now - potential is neither guaranteed to be fulfilled nor remotely relevant in the present. And it isn’t hindsight to say this, because concerns were being raised about this many weeks ago, before Dickie had even been sold let alone not been replaced.

Yet we’ve got how many wingers / forwards? About 9? Taylor, Winnall, Agyei, Osei, Asonganyi, Henry, Hall, Cooper, Napa? And apparently the plan is to plough what’s left of the cap into a tenth option, and bring in inexperienced players on loan to prop up the defence, maybe? Is that seriously the plan?

Sometimes you really do need to simply write your first eleven on a piece of paper, then write the name of a second player underneath each of those names who is the “backup” to that position, until you get to 22 players with each position having two names that you feel are at least good enough to play in a match. You would be amazed how many top level clubs work this way - they genuinely build their squad structures with a marker pen. Obviously some positions might be more evenly matched than others, but you get a squad of footballers by doing this. We however seem to cover that part of the team sheet over and treat the defence like it’s some sort of inconvenience, and pretend that only sexy wingers and forwards exist. At some point we are going to have to at least attempt to have a basic and adequate defence, where one injury or a straight red card doesn’t suddenly plunge things into chaos. We’ve been playing with the bare bones at the back for over a calendar year now - probably more than 18 months if you really trace it back - and when you then start reducing the quality while failing to increase the quantity, it’s not going to prove helpful.

Perhaps most importantly, however, we are going to need to get one or two in who are okay / fairly decent players but are strong leaders. Talkers, organisers, communicators and battlers who are up for getting their kit dirty. There’s too much emphasis on, and obsession with, this notion of beautiful technical mavericks being the be all and end all. You need some players in there who can actually have a bloody scrap, and that isn’t anything to do with age. They don’t need to be 30+ and on their last legs, they just need to have hair on their chest and not be afraid to point a few fingers, and ruffle a few feathers. That needs to be allowed to happen - we can’t just keep signing quiet little boys who won’t talk back, while blindly chasing some purist fantasy where only swashbuckling football is allowed, and the players and manager blow kisses to their adoring fans at the final whistle, who in turn throw yellow roses onto the pitch while screaming “forza, forza!” No football team at any level is ever successful without those individuals, right up to the Liverpool’s and Man City’s of the world. You need to have a couple of players who really want it, and who aren’t afraid to pin their own team mates against the wall if they aren’t pulling their weight, let alone go eyeball to eyeball with the opposition.

Yes, the league season is two games old, and we will probably be ‘fine’ by the time we’ve played 46. We could just as easily win the next two games, and that would be ‘fine’ as well. But we haven’t won a proper game inside 90 minutes, bar the tinpot reserve game, since Shrewsbury. We have drawn four (Pompey x2, Wimbledon and Watford in the league cup) and lost three (Wembley, two league games). We can’t start every single season by spluttering through the first 8-10 games and being lucky to average a point per match, and then hoping that when we finally get going the pack hasn’t gotten too far in front. At some point someone has to go, “There is a flaw in the design here, if this happens every season then something is wrong in the way it’s set up at the start.”

There is still time to turn a few dials and sort a few things out, but they do need turning.

Agree with all of this. Well put.

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

Cooper was very good against Watford and gave the team balance which we definitely lacked yesterday. He will be up and down a bit considering he came from part time football at a lower level just like Sykes and Whyte.

Starting team:

Eastwood
Long Moore Atkinson Elechi
Henry Forde Brannagan
Sykes Taylor Cooper

Agyei to come on off the bench.

Hopefully we have some signings which will increase the options.

As an alternative (it won't happen though) for the defence:

Lofthouse Moore Atkinson Long

That is one of the most inexperienced defences we have ever fielded ....along with a mis firing midfield ....Going to be a bit of a different season I think !

 

[Marked Ox]

That is one of the most inexperienced defences we have ever fielded ....along with a mis firing midfield ....Going to be a bit of a different season I think !

Yes unfortunately. At least it would be round pegs in round holes I guess.