The final RefWatch of the season, vote now
Ref Watch 18/05/2024: L1 Play-Off Final - Bolton vs Oxford - Sam Barrott
- Thread starter Northstandboy
- Start date
Yeah, Maghoma. Also there was treatment for both Moore and Bennett, just before the latter was subbed. I expected about 8 at the time, so 9 was not much of a surprise to me.
Marked Ox
Level: Mickey Lewis
(351 Apps, 7 Gls)
They checked the handball claim against Elliott Moore but rightly called as no change as his arm was right by his body.
Marked Ox
Level: Mickey Lewis
(351 Apps, 7 Gls)
Also, they'd have added on a short bit for the couple of VAR checks. I thought 9 mins was about right.
Tinman
Level: Jack Midson
(68 Apps, 15 Gls)
There was. Have watched the whole game back and they did check. Wrong decision imo but ultimately doesn't matter thankfully.
Marked Ox
Level: Mickey Lewis
(351 Apps, 7 Gls)
Watching a replay of the game, the various angles shown aren't clear or conclusive at the time, imo, so the VAR Official won't recommend the Match Ref take a look. Likewise if the Ref on the pitch had given it, it shouldn't have been changed either. Unless they have cameras covering the penalty box lines, of course then they should have a definitive answer either way.
If only VAR had the ability to draw lines over the TV footage to make a toenail perfect decision...
Not that it's what I want, would have preferred the complete lack of technology and get to leave the game saying "a different ref would have give that"
Marked Ox
Level: Mickey Lewis
(351 Apps, 7 Gls)
We'd still be there if they had to draw lines for the penalty area!
Oxford84
Level: Dave Roberts
(176 Apps, 8 Gls)
access all areas, you can pause the picture from our camera person when the keeper hits Dale, 100% in the area. 12.54
werthersoriginal
Level: James Constable
(280 Apps, 106 Gls)
Who cares anyway? Football should be judged in the moment.
I thought the ref was pretty good, he let the game go on without constantly blowing fir fouls.
Osleroad
Level: Dave Roberts
(176 Apps, 8 Gls)
I had s good view too and it was outside the box but a foul in any case
Pompeyyellows
Level: Dave Langan
(136 Apps, 3 Gls)
It was right in front of me and my gut feeling was outside the area.
Someone has a video still....it looks inside to me
Oxford84
Level: Dave Roberts
(176 Apps, 8 Gls)
Still got it wrong and this is the vote the ref thread and its also extra evidence of the mistake.
SSO
Level: Chris Maguire
(79 Apps, 22 Gls)
I gave him a 5. Seemed to give them everything as shown by some sarcastic cheering when we finally got something given in first half. Half fouls by us were given as free kicks, half fouls and worse by them were ignored.
Thought it was a pen for us second half and that VAR would give it. Not sure why it was not a sending off for the keeper for a blatant last man foul. Don't like VAR anyway and thought that the ref was hedging his bets that he would get a nudge either way on the red card or pen. Did not realise VAR had actually looked at it until I watched it at home. Still thought it was a pen then and that VAR was trying to be low key and actually decided to throw the already poorly performing ref under the bus. Again could not quite understand why 9 mins added. Thought it would have been 6. Would have been a travesty had the extra time led to a really nervy finish. Luckily I cashed out on 86 mins at almost 3/1. The 9 mins confirmed to me that somehow Bolton were to get something out of the game.
Thought it was a pen for us second half and that VAR would give it. Not sure why it was not a sending off for the keeper for a blatant last man foul. Don't like VAR anyway and thought that the ref was hedging his bets that he would get a nudge either way on the red card or pen. Did not realise VAR had actually looked at it until I watched it at home. Still thought it was a pen then and that VAR was trying to be low key and actually decided to throw the already poorly performing ref under the bus. Again could not quite understand why 9 mins added. Thought it would have been 6. Would have been a travesty had the extra time led to a really nervy finish. Luckily I cashed out on 86 mins at almost 3/1. The 9 mins confirmed to me that somehow Bolton were to get something out of the game.
- Year of First Game
- 1980
No, the yellow was correct. He wasn't the last man, there was a defender right next to him. Also the ball was going away from goal, no chance Dale would have kept it in.
I thought it was outside the box in real time, it happened pretty much right in front of us, but looking at some of the clips on the internet (especially the OUFC behind the scenes video) looks like it was inside. The VAR cameras were terribly positioned to give it however. Glad it didn't matter in the end.
m
Level: Les Phillips
(224 Apps, 15 Gls)
I haven't watched it back, but otherwise 100% agree with this.
SSO
Level: Chris Maguire
(79 Apps, 22 Gls)
From just watching it again the defender partially tries to shield the ball from Dale as he is asking his keeper to come for it. Dale gets between the two when the keeper clatters him. Although in close proximity it does make the keeper the last man. I think in a lot of these situations the benefit of doubt does go to the defence and as the momentum of the attacker is stopped there is a school of thought that a defender would get back which I think is wrong because no calculation is made for the speed the attacker is going.
It is a strange one because at the point of contact the keeper has one foot inside the box and so does Dale. I hate VAR and didn't want it for this game but I fail to see how this was resolved in 45 seconds when these ones are taking 3 minutes in the PL. I think it was a bit of a conspiracy to show that VAR really works and can work quickly. We were never really shown conclusively that it was outside the box. I totally agree that the cameras were poorly positioned but in our national stadium that should not happen and only fuels people like me who think VAR is not fit for purpose.
I am totally biased of course because it was for my team and I have a deep seated hatred of VAR. But in all honesty if it had been Bolton in that position I would have been shitting myself and then thinking we got had got away with one.
It is a strange one because at the point of contact the keeper has one foot inside the box and so does Dale. I hate VAR and didn't want it for this game but I fail to see how this was resolved in 45 seconds when these ones are taking 3 minutes in the PL. I think it was a bit of a conspiracy to show that VAR really works and can work quickly. We were never really shown conclusively that it was outside the box. I totally agree that the cameras were poorly positioned but in our national stadium that should not happen and only fuels people like me who think VAR is not fit for purpose.
I am totally biased of course because it was for my team and I have a deep seated hatred of VAR. But in all honesty if it had been Bolton in that position I would have been shitting myself and then thinking we got had got away with one.
Kernow Yellow
Level: Mateo Corbo
(13 Apps, 8 Yellows, 1 Red)
A couple of things here. Being 'last man' means nothing in itself, but is often used as shorthand for 'denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity' (DOGSO), which is the reason a red card can be given for this type of non-violent foul. It is not 'obvious' that the keeper denied a goal-scoring opportunity here as Dale was not heading towards goal, and there were no Oxford players in the box for him to play the ball to.
Secondly, if a penalty had been awarded, then a red card cannot be given if the offender is making a genuine attempt to play the ball (the so-called 'double jeopardy' rule that was brought in a few years ago). The double-jeopardy law states: "Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offender is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.) the offending player must be sent off."
So, even if VAR had intervened, there is absolutely no way that the result was ever going to be a penalty AND a red card. In fact, I don't see much reason why it even merited a yellow card, though it was a clear free-kick (and arguably could have been a penalty).
I spoke on T'Manor podcast about what I thought VAR should have been actually looking for in this example.
VAR usage is commonly referenced as looking for a 'clear and obvious' mistake i.e. was the referee's decision based on their one viewing clearly the wrong decision.
I don't think in this case it was clearly wrong from their view point, it was very close and you can understand why they'd have chosen penalty or free kick.
However - an in or out decision, is a factual one. You're either in the box, or out of the box. The ball is either in play or out of play.
If we'd have scored a goal where there was a question around the ball staying in play or not, they wouldn't look at it from the 'clear and obvious' point of view, they'd have checked whether it was in or out.
So for me, this decision shouldn't have been about the 'clear and obvious' factor. It was clearly a foul, and therefore the check required was whether it was a free-kick or a penalty i.e. was the foul committed outside or inside the box.
I don't understand from all the pictures and video we have been able to see from Sky, photographers etc. how VAR can think the foul was outside the box.
VAR usage is commonly referenced as looking for a 'clear and obvious' mistake i.e. was the referee's decision based on their one viewing clearly the wrong decision.
I don't think in this case it was clearly wrong from their view point, it was very close and you can understand why they'd have chosen penalty or free kick.
However - an in or out decision, is a factual one. You're either in the box, or out of the box. The ball is either in play or out of play.
If we'd have scored a goal where there was a question around the ball staying in play or not, they wouldn't look at it from the 'clear and obvious' point of view, they'd have checked whether it was in or out.
So for me, this decision shouldn't have been about the 'clear and obvious' factor. It was clearly a foul, and therefore the check required was whether it was a free-kick or a penalty i.e. was the foul committed outside or inside the box.
I don't understand from all the pictures and video we have been able to see from Sky, photographers etc. how VAR can think the foul was outside the box.
- Year of First Game
- 1980
The extended highlights showed the VAR camera angles, and I thought they were unclear at best. The incident...
If I'm honest; same here. Just.
Witneyoldfella
Level: Chris Maguire
(79 Apps, 22 Gls)
Who cares now......
ZeroTheHero
Level: Phil Whitehead
(238 Apps)
It's of academic interest really. I thought at the time the ref was right (and am still not totally convinced he was wrong despite some of the images), so it didn't bother me during the rest of the match and we won the game anyway.
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