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Away Match Build-Up 08/11/24 - Championship: Watford v OUFC

What will the result be?


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Goodwin with the winner tomorrow night. I thank you.
What - the “He’s been bought for a record fee to get us through the playoffs” Goodwin?
The “He’ll be fit for the start of the season”Goodwin?
The “It’s just a knock ; he’ll be back soon”Goodwin?
The Goodwin who has done next to nothing to contribute to this season?
The Goodwin who is not trusted over a completely-knackered Harris and a young lad on loan for a season?
Well, I hope you’re right, cos I can hear Scotchers thumping down the corridor towards us at this very moment to defend his fitness record and his bad luck.
It’s an interesting prediction, Brahma…… but then Trump won the election.
 
Exactly, Werthers, that's my point, they don't, and they shouldn't, but unfortunately in the real world people do get punished for getting injured, their pay is docked, and they find themselves being disciplined for being "in breach of company sickness standards" Even though it's no fault of their own.

In football, you can spend most of your career injured, through no fault of your own, but retire at 30 a millionaire, having spent your whole career being mollycoddled and pampered, and large parts of it, not even playing.
Whereas in the real world, if you keep taking time off for injuries or illness, through no fault of your own, your docked pay, disciplined, and eventually fired, and left skint, at 30, looking for another job.

Chromeyellow, players don't play as well when they have to play 3 games in 7 days? Imagine if they had to work 5 or 6 ten hour days in 7.

But they don't, they only have to play 90mins 2-3 times, in 7 days, if that, and they even whinge about that, and people fall for it!
Poor little footballers. :rolleyes:

And it's nothing to do with having outdated ideas of masculinity, it's simply about highlighting how bloody good modern day footballers have actually got it, and you've got to be pretty bloody gullible to fall for any of their whinging about how hard it is for them!

Christ! I wish I was a superfit athlete, being pampered with all the physio and wellbeing treatments they could possibly wish for, and a super healthy diet all prepared for them at work, which is over by about 3pm every day, and paid obscenely well on top of all that, just for playing footy!

And if they get injured at all, they're pampered and mollycoddled within an inch of their lives, on full pay! What a bloody life!

I'll now offer a little perspective, in contrast:

I developed a nasty work related shoulder injury about 5 years ago, and spent months asking my bosses for help with my workload, due to the pain I was in, but they refused, saying they had nobody to do the work they'd have to take off me, so I would just have to suck it up and do it.

When I said I couldn't do it, they told me that by turning up for work, I was declaring myself fit for work, and therefore cannot expect any special treatment, and if I didn't fulfil my duties, there would be consequences.

Over the next 18 months, my shoulder deteriorated to the point that I couldn't move my arm away from my body, and I was signed off work for 5 weeks, on statutory sick pay. During this time I received physio that I had to pay for, and eventually an ultrasound guided injection (on the nhs)

I was told by doctors, on my return to work not to do any heavy lifting for at least a month, as the shoulder will have been weakened by the injection, and the lack of use for the previous 5 weeks that I'd been off work and inactive.

When I returned to work, they gave me a warning for being off sick, even though I'd had no time off sick for about 3 years prior to this, and refused to put me on light duties, on the technicality that I didn't have an official doctors note. I returned to full duties immediately, and within one week, my shoulder was knackered again.

I spent the next 6 months asking for help and support every day, and being refused again, like before. I then contacted our union, who then had me referred to occupational health, who then determined that I was unfit to work, and due to the fact I couldn't move my arm away from my side, was technically disabled.

I was then signed off for 6 months, again on statutory pay, during which time I was due to have surgery, but that was cancelled due to covid.

I ended up being off for 9 months in total, by which time, the time off alone had allowed the shoulder to heal, thus resulting in me no longer needing surgery once they were offering surgery again after the pandemic. I was able to have another guided ultrasound steroid injection instead, which finally fixed the problem.

When I returned to work, I was given another warning, but this time I had a doctors note, so they (reluctantly) put me on light duties, but were really unpleasant to me the entire time, as if it was me who had done something wrong by being injured.

This is pretty normal treatment for people in working class employment, they're expected to just turn up for work and get on with it, and if they don't, or can't, they get disciplined, or sacked. Unions are only so much use.

Then if you contrast that with how modern day footballers are treated, it's a complete different world, a different universe in fact!

They've got it so easy, are so mollycoddled and pampered, they're trained and supported to becoming superfit athletes, and have their super healthy meals prepared for them at work, and they're paid obscene amounts of money, and all they're asked for in return, is to play a game of footy once, maybe twice a week, and they still whinge and moan that it's too much. And there are people who are so gullible and soft minded that they agree with them!

Modern day footballers get signed up into academy's by the age of 10, and are mollycoddled from day one. By the time they're adults, they've completely lost touch with reality and how the real world works.

Honestly, one month in a real working class job, and they'd be gibbering wrecks!

I can't stand it when people who are living their dream lives, and have it so obscenely good, in every way, have the nerve to complain, when they have no idea what it's like in the real world, and just how bad it could really be for them.

And more and more nowadays, there are apologists, who actually agree with them!

As you can probably tell, it's a bit of a sore point for me!

I'm going for a lie down, because apparently I have a very angry, frowny look on my face as I'm typing, which Mrs MD is finding very amusing.
As others have said, your experience is awful, but I also think your view of footballers is very narrow.

Most footballers spend their youth and early adulthood giving everything to achieve the dream you speak about, but 99% (quite literally) won't make the grade, so the job they've dreamed and worked most of their life up until that moment will have been for nothing.

And those that do make it are one opinion or one major injury away from being permanently unemployed and out of professional football all together.

So yes, most professional footballers are well paid, overpaid in fact, but I'm not sure comparing them to yourself is really a great comparison.
 
Really can't understand how anyone can not have Ter Avest in their team after Tuesday.

Dude took a little while to get going, but from ~30-40 minutes until he came off, he was the best player on the pitch. Scored the goal, had our only other good chance of the game, and defended outstandingly well. Looked strong, athletic and had a nice touch to his passing.

Sure, it was his first game of the season. But that's why we took him off after 70 minutes. It's not like he's someone who has an extensive injury history, and he's fresher than anyone. Why does he get rested having played less than 90 minutes this season, when Tyler doesn't get rested having run himself into the ground for 1237 out of the 1260 minutes we've played this year!?!


McEachran.....maybe, because he's getting on a bit and just coming back from injury. That's one for the sports science team to determine, but if they give him the OK, you get him out there again as well.

And if you're desperate to get Kioso back into the team - play him at RCB (assuming Nelson can't go) instead of Long.
Ter Avest looked absolutely knackered when he came off and Des said he was cramping up just before. He's barely played all season, it just seems a bit too much of a risk to start him in twice in 4 days, especially in a system where he has to do a lot of running. Personally, I think it makes sense to start Kioso and bring Ter Avest on in the second half if required.
 
As others have said, your experience is awful, but I also think your view of footballers is very narrow.

Most footballers spend their youth and early adulthood giving everything to achieve the dream you speak about, but 99% (quite literally) won't make the grade, so the job they've dreamed and worked most of their life up until that moment will have been for nothing.

And those that do make it are one opinion or one major injury away from being permanently unemployed and out of professional football all together.

So yes, most professional footballers are well paid, overpaid in fact, but I'm not sure comparing them to yourself is really a great comparison.
My situation was just an example of the difference between what a standard working class job is like compared to that of a modern day professional footballer. They're worlds apart.

But I'm well aware that not all academy players make it to the promised land of being an established professional footballer, but the point I was making was more based upon the incredible life on offer for those that do, and what that's like compared to the standard of employment and life that the majority of people are faced with in more everyday life of the real world.

In terms of wealth, health and quality of life, they're universes apart.
 
Well certainly better than the bloke before him, the one who refers to Jerome as 'darling' - after telling us about his holiday, he then tried to slip in a 'joke' whereby he referred to ter Avest as 'ripped t-shirt' or something similarly unfunny. He should have been cut-off at that point.
Get dialling then Ron. I’d like to hear you contribute.
 
What - the “He’s been bought for a record fee to get us through the playoffs” Goodwin?
The “He’ll be fit for the start of the season”Goodwin?
The “It’s just a knock ; he’ll be back soon”Goodwin?
The Goodwin who has done next to nothing to contribute to this season?
The Goodwin who is not trusted over a completely-knackered Harris and a young lad on loan for a season?
Well, I hope you’re right, cos I can hear Scotchers thumping down the corridor towards us at this very moment to defend his fitness record and his bad luck.
It’s an interesting prediction, Brahma…… but then Trump won the election.

Can't win on here Tails.

I used the word 'dropped' in reference to MH when everyone wanted to use the word, 'rested'. His rest doesn't have seem to have re-energised him yet, whilst Dane#44 has started to find the net. Point being, I was criticised for that 'terminology'.

Give a young lad a bit of encouragement and praise, I get mocked for that too ;-)

I'll settle for an assist from Big Will, assuming he will be afforded some game time.
 
It's a horrendous story that happened to you @Mad Dog - I'm sorry that your employer seems to have treated you so badly and glad to know that the ultrasound guided steroids and the rest seems to have made some difference.

Despite the constant media stories about people abusing sick pay I'm far more aware of people working despite terrible and potentially crippling injuries because they have no choice.

But I don't think your problems are caused by young footballers. They well be mollycoddled, but that's because thousands of people want to watch them play, and are prepared to pay for the privilege. They are all one injury away from ending that career that even 18 year olds have been focusing on for 10 years or more. You only have to think of someone like Jeff Astle, or Dave Langan to realise how they too can suffer workplace injuroes that can be career-, or life-ending and can have huge consequences in retirement too . Personally I'm glad that footballers are relatively well looked after, get a decent wage and are protected if they are injured at work. It's a short career at best. To listen to some on here players should be sacked when injured and I sometimes feel some people would like them to be put down like racehorses.

You may think of playing football for a living as a very easy life, but those who do it, with the expectations of thousands or millions on their backs and judging their every move often face huge psychological pressures. I'm sure your job's important and you do it as well as you can, but I bet there's not a forum where complete strangers comment on how you did at work every week and make all kinds of comments on your diet, your character or your motivations.

Oxford united fans above all should remember that for some great football talent can be a curse as well as a blessing.
 
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Exactly, Werthers, that's my point, they don't, and they shouldn't, but unfortunately in the real world people do get punished for getting injured, their pay is docked, and they find themselves being disciplined for being "in breach of company sickness standards" Even though it's no fault of their own.

In football, you can spend most of your career injured, through no fault of your own, but retire at 30 a millionaire, having spent your whole career being mollycoddled and pampered, and large parts of it, not even playing.
Whereas in the real world, if you keep taking time off for injuries or illness, through no fault of your own, your docked pay, disciplined, and eventually fired, and left skint, at 30, looking for another job.

Chromeyellow, players don't play as well when they have to play 3 games in 7 days? Imagine if they had to work 5 or 6 ten hour days in 7.

But they don't, they only have to play 90mins 2-3 times, in 7 days, if that, and they even whinge about that, and people fall for it!
Poor little footballers. :rolleyes:

And it's nothing to do with having outdated ideas of masculinity, it's simply about highlighting how bloody good modern day footballers have actually got it, and you've got to be pretty bloody gullible to fall for any of their whinging about how hard it is for them!

Christ! I wish I was a superfit athlete, being pampered with all the physio and wellbeing treatments they could possibly wish for, and a super healthy diet all prepared for them at work, which is over by about 3pm every day, and paid obscenely well on top of all that, just for playing footy!

And if they get injured at all, they're pampered and mollycoddled within an inch of their lives, on full pay! What a bloody life!

I'll now offer a little perspective, in contrast:

I developed a nasty work related shoulder injury about 5 years ago, and spent months asking my bosses for help with my workload, due to the pain I was in, but they refused, saying they had nobody to do the work they'd have to take off me, so I would just have to suck it up and do it.

When I said I couldn't do it, they told me that by turning up for work, I was declaring myself fit for work, and therefore cannot expect any special treatment, and if I didn't fulfil my duties, there would be consequences.

Over the next 18 months, my shoulder deteriorated to the point that I couldn't move my arm away from my body, and I was signed off work for 5 weeks, on statutory sick pay. During this time I received physio that I had to pay for, and eventually an ultrasound guided injection (on the nhs)

I was told by doctors, on my return to work not to do any heavy lifting for at least a month, as the shoulder will have been weakened by the injection, and the lack of use for the previous 5 weeks that I'd been off work and inactive.

When I returned to work, they gave me a warning for being off sick, even though I'd had no time off sick for about 3 years prior to this, and refused to put me on light duties, on the technicality that I didn't have an official doctors note. I returned to full duties immediately, and within one week, my shoulder was knackered again.

I spent the next 6 months asking for help and support every day, and being refused again, like before. I then contacted our union, who then had me referred to occupational health, who then determined that I was unfit to work, and due to the fact I couldn't move my arm away from my side, was technically disabled.

I was then signed off for 6 months, again on statutory pay, during which time I was due to have surgery, but that was cancelled due to covid.

I ended up being off for 9 months in total, by which time, the time off alone had allowed the shoulder to heal, thus resulting in me no longer needing surgery once they were offering surgery again after the pandemic. I was able to have another guided ultrasound steroid injection instead, which finally fixed the problem.

When I returned to work, I was given another warning, but this time I had a doctors note, so they (reluctantly) put me on light duties, but were really unpleasant to me the entire time, as if it was me who had done something wrong by being injured.

This is pretty normal treatment for people in working class employment, they're expected to just turn up for work and get on with it, and if they don't, or can't, they get disciplined, or sacked. Unions are only so much use.

Then if you contrast that with how modern day footballers are treated, it's a complete different world, a different universe in fact!

They've got it so easy, are so mollycoddled and pampered, they're trained and supported to becoming superfit athletes, and have their super healthy meals prepared for them at work, and they're paid obscene amounts of money, and all they're asked for in return, is to play a game of footy once, maybe twice a week, and they still whinge and moan that it's too much. And there are people who are so gullible and soft minded that they agree with them!

Modern day footballers get signed up into academy's by the age of 10, and are mollycoddled from day one. By the time they're adults, they've completely lost touch with reality and how the real world works.

Honestly, one month in a real working class job, and they'd be gibbering wrecks!

I can't stand it when people who are living their dream lives, and have it so obscenely good, in every way, have the nerve to complain, when they have no idea what it's like in the real world, and just how bad it could really be for them.

And more and more nowadays, there are apologists, who actually agree with them!

As you can probably tell, it's a bit of a sore point for me!

I'm going for a lie down, because apparently I have a very angry, frowny look on my face as I'm typing, which Mrs MD is finding very amusing.
Sorry to hear about your problems at work but, like @chromeyellow said, join a union. I used to be a union rep (T&GWU) and quite a few of my cases involved similar issues and whenever the union got involved, management backed down and started behaving like they should. Every. Single. Time. Because they know they're in the wrong and they know that there are consequences, usually in the form of constructive dismissal cases or industrial tribunals. Unions work, and they work especially well when calling out management for unfair working practices.
 
I was at that trio of games at Vicarage Road in the late 90s, one postponed, one nearly postponed until an Oxford fan helped fix the electrics, and then the one with the wrong kit.
 
Sorry to hear about your problems at work but, like @chromeyellow said, join a union. I used to be a union rep (T&GWU) and quite a few of my cases involved similar issues and whenever the union got involved, management backed down and started behaving like they should. Every. Single. Time. Because they know they're in the wrong and they know that there are consequences, usually in the form of constructive dismissal cases or industrial tribunals. Unions work, and they work especially well when calling out management for unfair working practices.
Worth pointing out that the PFA has been influential in ensuring that players get treated properly when they are injured. I'm sure there are plenty of managers and owners who would like to treat their players as your employer treats you.
 
Worth pointing out that the PFA has been influential in ensuring that players get treated properly when they are injured. I'm sure there are plenty of managers and owners who would like to treat their players as your employer treats you.
Some players do get treated horrendously.
If a club want a player out of the club they will go out their way to make life difficult for that player.

You also have players such as Marcus Browne who is 26, but can’t get a club due to his past injury record. Those players have to then find a new career having known nothing else but football.

So yes, while footballers are well played and looked after on the whole, it is a short career and unless you are a big earner in the championship, you could be 1 injury or 1 manager away from falling out the game and having to find a whole new life for yourself.
 
It's a horrendous story that happened to you @Mad Dog - I'm sorry that your employer seems to have treated you so badly and glad to know that the ultrasound guided steroids and the rest seems to have made some difference.

Despite the constant media stories about people abusing sick pay I'm far more aware of people working despite terrible and potentially crippling injuries because they have no choice.

But I don't think your problems are caused by young footballers. They well be mollycoddled, but that's because thousands of people want to watch them play, and are prepared to pay for the privilege. They are all one injury away from ending that career that even 18 year olds have been focusing on for 10 years or more. You only have to think of someone like Jeff Astle, or Dave Langan to realise how they too can suffer workplace injuroes that can be career-, or life-ending and can have huge consequences in retirement too . Personally I'm glad that footballers are relatively well looked after, get a decent wage and are protected if they are injured at work. It's a short career at best. To listen to some on here players should be sacked when injured and I sometimes feel some people would like them to be put down like racehorses.

You may think of playing football for a living as a very easy life, but those who do it, with the expectations of thousands or millions on their backs and judging their every move often face huge psychological pressures. I'm sure your job's important and you do it as well as you can, but I bet there's not a forum where complete strangers comment on how you did at work every week and make all kinds of comments on your diet, your character or your motivations.

Oxford united fans above all should remember that for some great football talent can be a curse as well as a blessing.
Some very valid points here, and thank you for your kind words regarding my personal situation.

But just to pull you up on one thing you said - At no point have I said that my problems or anyones problems are caused by young players. I found that a bit confusing.

I'm merely commenting that those who do make it in the modern game, even at Championship and top end league one level, earn an amount of cash, and have such benefits and health and wellbeing resources available to them, that people in everyday life can only dream of, or have to pay substantial amounts of money for from their own wages, which are minuscule in comparison.

However, like you say, a footballers career is short, and although there is nothing stopping them going out and getting another job when they retire from football, like you, I don't begrudge them earning very well, when they are providing entertainment, and yes, their chosen career is very short in comparison to others, so they deserve to earn well from it.

Although, unlike back in the day, if a player had a career ending injury in today's game, with the insurances in place, and compensation fees probably contractually agreed within every contract they sign, the one off payment they would receive, would dwarf what the average Joe could probably earn in a lifetime!

Like I say, I don't begrudge footballers earning big bucks in return for the spectacle and entertainment they provide, as football really plays a vital role in peoples lives and communities, so they should be paid well for that. Although I think the wages being paid at the very top of the game is disgusting.

That said, I certainly don't envy the crap they have to put up with from morons firing constant abuse at them from the stands or online, that must chip away at them. And the constant scrutiny they're under probably does put them under a lot of pressure at times.

But it's still an incredibly privileged life they live, and I'm sure the luxury and lavish lifestyle more than makes up for any of those negatives!
 
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Sorry to hear about your problems at work but, like @chromeyellow said, join a union. I used to be a union rep (T&GWU) and quite a few of my cases involved similar issues and whenever the union got involved, management backed down and started behaving like they should. Every. Single. Time. Because they know they're in the wrong and they know that there are consequences, usually in the form of constructive dismissal cases or industrial tribunals. Unions work, and they work especially well when calling out management for unfair working practices.
Thank you - I am part of a union, and I did get them involved in the end, and it was only then that my bosses started behaving as they should've all along.

It's just a shame it had to come to that, as it's not really my style, I suppose I always assume people will be as decent and fair as I would be, but I learnt the hard way that's not always the case, particularly in my level of employment, where management seem to get away with a lot of poor treatment of staff.

Anyway, back to the game tomorrow, this thread has gone off on a right tangent, what t**t started that?!?
 
Looks like the best union in the world couldn't save Swindon at the moment- not that they would deserve it- s**t C***s!

Yeeeellloooowwwwsss
 
Well, as we are not in this league to bolster other team’s egos by rolling over, we should be fairly confident of getting something from this game.

From what I have seen of Watford this season they are a bit hit and miss too.
While they have won a few more games than us they have lost more than us too.
Undoubtedly a tough game (aren’t they all?), we are still in there swinging.
 
Thank you - I am part of a union, and I did get them involved in the end, and it was only then that my bosses started behaving as they should've all along.

It's just a shame it had to come to that, as it's not really my style, I suppose I always assume people will be as decent and fair as I would be, but I learnt the hard way that's not always the case, particularly in my level of employment, where management seem to get away with a lot of poor treatment of staff.

Anyway, back to the game tomorrow, this thread has gone off on a right tangent, what t**t started that?!?
Where do you work? Is IM your boss I? I heard he’s a bit of a c*nt to be honest you’re best off out of there.
 
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