Away Match Day Thread 08/02/2022 L1: Accrington Stanley v OUFC

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On February 1st, I said on here that I was disappointed by the transfer window and KR would have to get lucky with defensive injuries/suspensions/Covid cases for the remainder of the season (as, for the most part, he has been for the past two years).

Fast forward ten days, and it looks like his (and our) luck has already run out. Long & Brown injured, McNally absent.
Unless one or more of them can play at the weekend, then I've genuinely no idea what our back four is going to look like.

Three injuries/absences shouldn't qualify as a crisis (if we had three wingers or attacking midfielders out injured, we would have no problems whatsoever). That's not especially bad luck, that's normal lower league football wear-and-tear. But the way KR has constructed the squad, it is suddenly a crisis for us.

Maybe McNally and/or Long will be able to play on Saturday, or maybe we'll be able to brazen it out with a makeshift back four just through the quality of our attacking play. But if we can't field a proper defense and it starts to cost us points, then KR better not start pointing fingers anywhere but at the mirror. Because many of us have been (virtually) screaming at him to bring in more defensive cover for literally years.
I agree. The Mousinho question has troubled me all season and more so now. If he cannot play a full match and/or a period of games in a row then why are the club paying him a wage as a player and registering him as such? Surely his wage would be best used on a defensive player that can actually play. It makes zero sense to me at all.
 
Except that we don`t play with a standard RB/LB so bringing one in would be a pointless luxury.

Brown was/is supposed to be cover for Seddon at LWB.
This is spot on. Ideally all your players in each position have exactly the same strengths and weaknesses to allow for absolutely no tactical flexibility. Otherwise, there's a danger you won't be physically overrun in the play offs.
 
This is spot on. Ideally all your players in each position have exactly the same strengths and weaknesses to allow for absolutely no tactical flexibility. Otherwise, there's a danger you won't be physically overrun in the play offs.

You make it sound like we have a bunch of robots playing for us, i think a lot of our players share some of the same attributes but they are hardly
copies of each other, Williams and Whyte being one good example of that.
 
You make it sound like we have a bunch of robots playing for us, i think a lot of our players share some of the same attributes but they are hardly
copies of each other, Williams and Whyte being one good example of that.

Sure, but there's two things that Williams & Whyte share - they are not physically dominant players, and they are not natural defenders.
Two features that are shared with Winnall, Baldock, Taylor, Holland, Bodin, McGuane, Sykes, Henry & Browne.

Then we have a handful of players in our squad that have some defensive capabilities and/or like a tackle, but are not expert - Seddon, Cam, Kane, Forde & Hanson

In terms of players in our current squad that I would look at and say "Yes, that guy is a genuinely good defender" - it's Moore, McNally & Long.
I'm hoping we can add Brown to the list, but the jury's still out right now. That used to be true for Mous of course, but I don't know that you can say it any more given that he doesn't appear to be able to play 90 minutes. I have no idea what Smyth can do because I've never seen him play.

As a boring old pragmatist who appreciates the defensive side of the game just as much as flowery attacking play.......that's just nowhere near enough for me.
 
Sure, but there's two things that Williams & Whyte share - they are not physically dominant players, and they are not natural defenders.
Two features that are shared with Winnall, Baldock, Taylor, Holland, Bodin, McGuane, Sykes, Henry & Browne.

Then we have a handful of players in our squad that have some defensive capabilities and/or like a tackle, but are not expert - Seddon, Cam, Kane, Forde & Hanson

In terms of players in our current squad that I would look at and say "Yes, that guy is a genuinely good defender" - it's Moore, McNally & Long.
I'm hoping we can add Brown to the list, but the jury's still out right now. That used to be true for Mous of course, but I don't know that you can say it any more given that he doesn't appear to be able to play 90 minutes. I have no idea what Smyth can do because I've never seen him play.

As a boring old pragmatist who appreciates the defensive side of the game just as much as flowery attacking play.......that's just nowhere near enough for me.

Couldnt agree more, i think that KR is taking this whole we will outscore them philosophy a bit too far but at the same time its hard to
knock because thats 2 playoffs in a row and we are knocking on the door for a 3rd time.

I could be wrong but i think that last night was the first time i ever saw a 3-4-3 diamond.
 
Couldnt agree more, i think that KR is taking this whole we will outscore them philosophy a bit too far but at the same time its hard to
knock because thats 2 playoffs in a row and we are knocking on the door for a 3rd time.

I could be wrong but i think that last night was the first time i ever saw a 3-4-3 diamond.
Erm do we have any young players who can step in, like Elichi? They have to play some time, otherwise we’re just fattening them up for Oxford City.
 
Erm do we have any young players who can step in, like Elichi? They have to play some time, otherwise we’re just fattening them up for Oxford City.

Thats a question that is probably better answered by either @Junior_1 or @Sarge tbh with you as i think they keep fairly close
tabs on whats going on with the youth team.

The only thing that i can throw into the ring is that he was out on loan to a tier 6 club earlier on in the season and having come
back after his loan spell was up he was then sent out to a team in tier 7, its possible there were good reasons for that but at first
glance it doesnt look great.
 
Sure, but there's two things that Williams & Whyte share - they are not physically dominant players, and they are not natural defenders.
Two features that are shared with Winnall, Baldock, Taylor, Holland, Bodin, McGuane, Sykes, Henry & Browne.

Then we have a handful of players in our squad that have some defensive capabilities and/or like a tackle, but are not expert - Seddon, Cam, Kane, Forde & Hanson

In terms of players in our current squad that I would look at and say "Yes, that guy is a genuinely good defender" - it's Moore, McNally & Long.
I'm hoping we can add Brown to the list, but the jury's still out right now. That used to be true for Mous of course, but I don't know that you can say it any more given that he doesn't appear to be able to play 90 minutes. I have no idea what Smyth can do because I've never seen him play.

As a boring old pragmatist who appreciates the defensive side of the game just as much as flowery attacking play.......that's just nowhere near enough for me.
Yes, it's unfortunate we've got through the window with no extra cover for the defence and Gorrin despite it being glaringly obvious. Looking at the starting line up on Tuesday - a tough away game in dreadful conditions against a physical side - how many of the outfield 10 would you say were good defenders? Certainly Moore, and then maybe Brown as well but that's it, neither fullback are and no one in midfield. Two injuries 10 days after the window closes shouldn't leave you in that sort of predicament.

If Long and McNally are back sharpish and we have no other injuries for the rest of the season then we might just get away with it but we're witnessing now how quickly it can fall apart, especially with no real cover for the defence wither with Gorrin gone.
 
Also Kane seems to have lost the appetite he had for a good crunching tackle since coming back from the red card ban. As another poster said he seems an imposter compared to the brilliant Herbie earlier in the season.
 
Unfortunately, as we didn't win last night, the carrying on with current PPG reasoning is not looking so rosy.

If we continued on our current PPG, then it's only reasonable to assume all other teams also will.

Unfortunately, that would put us in 8th position, as MK, Wycombe, Sunderland, Wednesday and Plymouth are all currenty doing better.
Well it's easy to pick this out AFTER the game and use it as a negative, even though it was based on data BEFORE the game. We both know I was purely using the stats to highlight the good position we were in, and we also both know it's far from that simple. Yes, Plymouth and Sheffield Wednesday have a marginally higher ppg now - but the run in for Plymouth in particular is mental. In 6 of their last 7 games they face other promotion chasers which means lots of points either being taken from Plymouth or from our other rivals. In fact, most of the 9 playoff chasers still have to play other promotion chasers several times - Rotherham still have to play all 8 others and on current form will take lots of points from them, and MK Dons/Plymouth 7 others each.

3 of the 9 teams in the promotion chase will miss out. We have 7 winnable games now until we face another chaser to try and get as many points on the board for the run in as possible. Looking at the games each side has to play, and the current form of each side, I think Rotherham/Wigan top 2 is all but guaranteed, then Wycombe and Wednesday will be in the playoffs with 2 from us, Sunderland and MK Dons, with the third missing out with Plymouth and Ipswich.

I have a little table put together as the result of heavy boredom on yesterdays lunchbreak that details the run in for each of the promotion chasers and how difficult their run in is. After the Accrington loss it certainly doesn't look as good as it would have done after a win, but it also far from spells doom like many on here are suggesting it does. I can post it in a thread or send it to anyone interested.
 
Well it's easy to pick this out AFTER the game and use it as a negative, even though it was based on data BEFORE the game. We both know I was purely using the stats to highlight the good position we were in, and we also both know it's far from that simple. Yes, Plymouth and Sheffield Wednesday have a marginally higher ppg now - but the run in for Plymouth in particular is mental. In 6 of their last 7 games they face other promotion chasers which means lots of points either being taken from Plymouth or from our other rivals. In fact, most of the 9 playoff chasers still have to play other promotion chasers several times - Rotherham still have to play all 8 others and on current form will take lots of points from them, and MK Dons/Plymouth 7 others each.

3 of the 9 teams in the promotion chase will miss out. We have 7 winnable games now until we face another chaser to try and get as many points on the board for the run in as possible. Looking at the games each side has to play, and the current form of each side, I think Rotherham/Wigan top 2 is all but guaranteed, then Wycombe and Wednesday will be in the playoffs with 2 from us, Sunderland and MK Dons, with the third missing out with Plymouth and Ipswich.

I have a little table put together as the result of heavy boredom on yesterdays lunchbreak that details the run in for each of the promotion chasers and how difficult their run in is. After the Accrington loss it certainly doesn't look as good as it would have done after a win, but it also far from spells doom like many on here are suggesting it does. I can post it in a thread or send it to anyone interested.
Would be interesting to see , always the odd shock involved as well which throws it
 
Well it's easy to pick this out AFTER the game and use it as a negative, even though it was based on data BEFORE the game. We both know I was purely using the stats to highlight the good position we were in, and we also both know it's far from that simple. Yes, Plymouth and Sheffield Wednesday have a marginally higher ppg now - but the run in for Plymouth in particular is mental. In 6 of their last 7 games they face other promotion chasers which means lots of points either being taken from Plymouth or from our other rivals. In fact, most of the 9 playoff chasers still have to play other promotion chasers several times - Rotherham still have to play all 8 others and on current form will take lots of points from them, and MK Dons/Plymouth 7 others each.

3 of the 9 teams in the promotion chase will miss out. We have 7 winnable games now until we face another chaser to try and get as many points on the board for the run in as possible. Looking at the games each side has to play, and the current form of each side, I think Rotherham/Wigan top 2 is all but guaranteed, then Wycombe and Wednesday will be in the playoffs with 2 from us, Sunderland and MK Dons, with the third missing out with Plymouth and Ipswich.

I have a little table put together as the result of heavy boredom on yesterdays lunchbreak that details the run in for each of the promotion chasers and how difficult their run in is. After the Accrington loss it certainly doesn't look as good as it would have done after a win, but it also far from spells doom like many on here are suggesting it does. I can post it in a thread or send it to anyone interested.
I thin this sounds right. Some good teams are going to miss out on the playoffs, never mind miss out on promotion - and that's still excluding big clubs like Charlton and Portsmouth who aren't even figuring in your calculations.
 
Got me!! Must try to be sharper....

Same could we said about Hanson. Such is his standing this season, that Mous has made more appearances than he has. He really is waste of a squad space.

I’ve read some on here lay into Brown already, comparing him with Joe Grayson and possibly taking Cardiff fans’ comments a little too literally. To me, that’s unduly harsh when you see where he’s come from. 61 of his 151 appearances have been at NLS or lower and he has been catapulted into a second tier side who got promoted to the PL in that time. The criticism levelled at him sounds very similar to that fired at Rob Atkinson by Nigel Pearson at Bristol City – he’s a player with potential who may have jumped a few levels a little too soon. His spells since then have seen little runs of games here and there but nothing substantial. That he was played all over the place for Cardiff didn’t help either. Yes, he was culpable for Accrington’s first in some way but so were others. Hopefully his injury isn’t so bad as we’re going to need numbers in defence.

I echo what others have said about squad balance. I know it’s not easy and we have finite budgets to work within, but having a multitude of options for the wing and then do-a-job to non-existent options at LB and RB is really rubbish. I thought at the start of the season that Michael Elechi may become a backup LB but his disappearance on loan and our EFL Trophy exit have ended that as an option. KR is only shooting himself in the foot with this attitude.
 
I agree. The Mousinho question has troubled me all season and more so now. If he cannot play a full match and/or a period of games in a row then why are the club paying him a wage as a player and registering him as such? Surely his wage would be best used on a defensive player that can actually play. It makes zero sense to me at all.

I can't remember when it was (before the season perhaps?) but KR spoke of his admiration of Andrew Crofts at Brighton who despite hanging up his boots as a regular player in 2019 was still involved in a player-coaching capacity with the U23s. He would either start games and 'coach' as he went or come on as a sub to give direction. He's basically given Mous that role this season.

Admirable as it is and it's not a bad idea, there's a big difference between deploying it at a PL U23 side where the players require development and an ambitious L1 side with limited budgets and squad places full of pros with hundreds of professional games under their belts. It seems to be as well a bit of a waste of a place for someone who is 'super sub' at seeing out games from time to time. Mousinho has been a fine pro in his career - he was exceptional as DM in the second half of KR's first full season with us in 2018-19 - but if he can't offer anything other than cameos or at most one start a week, aren't we wasting a place?
 
I agree. The Mousinho question has troubled me all season and more so now. If he cannot play a full match and/or a period of games in a row then why are the club paying him a wage as a player and registering him as such? Surely his wage would be best used on a defensive player that can actually play. It makes zero sense to me at all.

This question has been answered. He has to be registered as a player to so his PFA role.!

Why that should come at the cost of Oxford, I don’t know.
 
This question has been answered. He has to be registered as a player to so his PFA role.!

Why that should come at the cost of Oxford, I don’t know.
Jeez. Thats some implication against JM and OUFC.

How do you know he isnt paid as a coach and simply registered as a player?

You don’t. But, for some strange reason, you never fail to pass up a chance to criticise the club you support.
 
Jeez. Thats some implication against JM and OUFC.

How do you know he isnt paid as a coach and simply registered as a player?

You don’t. But, for some strange reason, you never fail to pass up a chance to criticise the club your support.
I'm not a lawyer, but I'm sure someone on here is. Seems foolish to make libellous accusations if you also advertise your business on here - never mind the fact that the accusation is childishly ridiculous.

Mous has to be a registered player but doesn't have to be in the squad. We know his main role is now coaching. We have a squad place spare so he's not keeping someone else out.
 
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