Anindya Bakrie

Just out of interest, and this is a genuine question as I have know idea and am too lazy to do the research, how many clubs do actually own their own stadiums now?

How about Reading, MK Dons, Brighton for example? Even Tottenham, will their new stadium be owned by the club or the investors who own the club?

The club owning their own ground seems an outdated concept now and doesn’t necessarily need to be considered a concerning or worrying situation.

It depends on the type of owners of course, and that’s still the massive question, we all as OUFC supporters, have..

I believe the majority of English clubs own. Couple of notable exceptions being Man City and West 'am - both of whom benefitted from lucrative agreements after their respective stadiums were used for the Commonwealth/Olympic games.

On the continent, often it is the local council who own the stadium e.g. only 3 Serie A clubs own. Whilst the rents are relatively low, the club loses control on any development which could generate more revenue streams. I think this was a key driver for Juve to build their own stadium after renting the Stadio Della Alppi.

If OUFC were to pay a more reasonable rate of rent, play in a stadium fit for purpose and get to keep some of the revenues it generates on match day (hospitality, catering etc) then certainly we would be better off. At least that way no major financing required (significant headaches for Arsenal & Spurs).

Our current arrangement has to be one of the worst deals out there I would imagine.
 
I was always of the opinion that it really didn't matter if the club owned the stadium so long as there was a legally binding agreement in place that the club could play at that stadium in perpetuity at a mutually agreed cost. Also that as the club was generating the numbers attending, the club would control all revenue generated from those attending. The developers would have the opportunity to benefit from all the surrounding retail/entertainment income. The tie up with local authorities would come via the building of a "community" sports complex affording the community a location for other sporting activities. e.g. Ice hockey, squash, tennis etc. Obviously this would entail a fairly substantive development but, would allow both club to flourish, developers to recoup investment and provide the local authorities with a vote winning facility providing benefits for all.
 
In respect of MK Dons, Pete Winkelman is Chairman and, I believe, majority shareholder, so it's effectively 'his club'. (This was certainly the case a few years ago, but might have changed).

When he moved (stole, whatever, let's not get into that) Wimbledon FC and moved them to MK, his interest was not his new train set, or doing something good for MK, or caring about football in general.

He saw business opportunities. Stadium:MK is a fantastic arena, but wouldn't pay it's way on MK Dons fans attendance alone. Hilton DoubleTree rent their space off Winkelman, England & Northampton rugby play certain matches there, concerts and miscellaneous events all bring in cash. Most beneficial to Winkelman though, is the large retail and catering development attached to the stadium. Multi-screen cinema, seven or so chain restaurants, Marks & Spencer plus a dozen other stores all add to the coffers.

So MK Dons / Winkelman own their own stadium and have developed around it, and that's how a town with no football tradition and precious few bums on seats can afford to retain a club there.

Doncaster's Keepmoat has a similar set up. The stadium is just part of the offering to the wider community as it's host to men's and women's teams plus a rugby league side. It has plenty of conferencing facilities and was built as part of a wider development of the city as well. Retail outlets help in that regard around the stadium too.

That said, football is a strange beast. Whilst it makes economical sense to enter into those arrangements, the football experience at MK Dons and Doncaster is utterly anodyne. Give me the dodgy walk from the station and the clamber through someone's back garden to view a game through a letter box view at Kenilworth Road to the polished, neat-and-tidy stadium next to a manufactured lake and a Frankie and Benny's at Doncaster any day of the week.

Sure these new stadiums are 'better' in terms of facilities but - by God - do they lose character. Sadly it's the way we're all being forced to go. Adapt or die as they say.
 
I’ve posted this before as I can’t help but see this on the Grenoble Road site. The surrounding area even looks the same and the car parks are of the same orientation. We need to aim big ?

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And I'm sure that this would be the model for any future development at Oxford and one that I'd personally welcome. We may still rent the ground, but the additional income streams would allow us to pay far less than we currently do. Plus the opportunity of 5-10,000 fans turning up every fortnight will mean that any restaurants/bars will be happy to keep us there. Aside of wealthy fans taking over I'm not sure there are any better options right now.
I think that is all a little bit optimistic, you expect the owners to spend 10’s of millions building a stadium, charge us a nominal rent and then let us have the concessions, they will not recoup their outlay.

Question for you, when you say we can have an affordable rent and the concessions who do you mean?
The same people will own the ground and club so “the club” will not be gaining anything, I would worry on how the level of debt put against the club was managed.
 
We pick up game related revenue (tickets, food and drink inside, merchandice, advertising etc) leaving income from adjoining businesses to pay back the holding company.

A decent hotel facility closer to the city centre will make a fortune, as will conference facilities, cinema, spa/gym/leisure centre, restaurants, bars, retail units etc.

The club would gain by being able to massively reduce our current costs whilst also being able to use all related income. That won't gives us the buying power of Man City but will be a huge step forward from where we are today.
 
We pick up game related revenue (tickets, food and drink inside, merchandice, advertising etc) leaving income from adjoining businesses to pay back the holding company.

A decent hotel facility closer to the city centre will make a fortune, as will conference facilities, cinema, spa/gym/leisure centre, restaurants, bars, retail units etc.

The club would gain by being able to massively reduce our current costs whilst also being able to use all related income. That won't gives us the buying power of Man City but will be a huge step forward from where we are today.
All sounds good but
If the owners of the ground have spent millions building this stadium, how will the revenues you suggest benefit the club if the club is the stadium owners?
 
All sounds good but
If the owners of the ground have spent millions building this stadium, how will the revenues you suggest benefit the club if the club is the stadium owners?

We are currently paying upwards of £300k rent and service charges without any money coming in for match day food and drink. So we could be upwards of half a million quid a year better off, even without the opportunity to get bigger and better advertising deals that could come from a new stadium or increasing attendance that could come from having a more central stadium.

Potentially, this could be invested directly into the playing squad that could elevate us to the Championship or beyond. Of course we could also crash like MK Dons but that's always a gamble no matter what happens.
 
We are currently paying upwards of £300k rent and service charges without any money coming in for match day food and drink. So we could be upwards of half a million quid a year better off, even without the opportunity to get bigger and better advertising deals that could come from a new stadium or increasing attendance that could come from having a more central stadium.

Potentially, this could be invested directly into the playing squad that could elevate us to the Championship or beyond. Of course we could also crash like MK Dons but that's always a gamble no matter what happens.
Firstly is £300k plus any relevance to these owners?
Why would anyone spend 10’s of millions to get the chump change from selling hotdogs etc?
Again, if the club and the owners are one of the same how would it matter what the stadium made or didn’t make as it would go to them.
You seem under the illusion that the “club” is something that is attached to the fans, emotionally yes financially no and never will be with today current type of owners
 
Firstly is £300k plus any relevance to these owners?
Why would anyone spend 10’s of millions to get the chump change from selling hotdogs etc?
Again, if the club and the owners are one of the same how would it matter what the stadium made or didn’t make as it would go to them.
You seem under the illusion that the “club” is something that is attached to the fans, emotionally yes financially no and never will be with today current type of owners
I think the club and owners are directly connected, but you asked what the club would gain as if it was a separate entity, and I've explained that.

The owners wouldn't only cash in on a hot dog or two, but potentially millions from all the other retail and leisure provisions within the stadium. Plus, music concerts, other sporting events etc.

The owners could pump all of that into the club and bankroll our journey to the PL, or pocket it. But even if it was the latter, we could still be better off than we currently are, and that was the point I was making.
 
I think the club and owners are directly connected, but you asked what the club would gain as if it was a separate entity, and I've explained that.

The owners wouldn't only cash in on a hot dog or two, but potentially millions from all the other retail and leisure provisions within the stadium. Plus, music concerts, other sporting events etc.

The owners could pump all of that into the club and bankroll our journey to the PL, or pocket it. But even if it was the latter, we could still be better off than we currently are, and that was the point I was making.
Or they could pay £300k rent and pump that money into the journey attempt to the prem.
As you won’t answer I presume you can’t see there is no gain to the club as the owners will take any money to cover their outlay.
You really dressed up the potential but are not being realistic on who’s pocket the financial side will go in.
 
Or they could pay £300k rent and pump that money into the journey attempt to the prem.
As you won’t answer I presume you can’t see there is no gain to the club as the owners will take any money to cover their outlay.
You really dressed up the potential but are not being realistic on who’s pocket the financial side will go in.
I've given several answers so not sure what else you are expecting. However, I'm not involved in the club, so not sure it's my position to give any financial assurances. I've simply provide an alternative view to the doom and gloom that many want to share. We've had no control over our finances since moving into the Kassam and a move may change nothing. However (best case) we have the opportunity to start from scratch and negotiate a deal that allows the club to play (virtually) rent free with all match day revenue in a stadium that is commercially sustainable with or without football. Worse case, we are in the same position as we are now.
 
Except the worst case is better than that because, upon separation of club and stadium owner, no clown would be allowed to sign off on a deal as detrimental as the current one.
 
I've given several answers so not sure what else you are expecting. However, I'm not involved in the club, so not sure it's my position to give any financial assurances. I've simply provide an alternative view to the doom and gloom that many want to share. We've had no control over our finances since moving into the Kassam and a move may change nothing. However (best case) we have the opportunity to start from scratch and negotiate a deal that allows the club to play (virtually) rent free with all match day revenue in a stadium that is commercially sustainable with or without football. Worse case, we are in the same position as we are now.
Is there a position in the eutopia that you foresee, that we might actually be worse off as a "club"?
What if the owner/s get bored of their project and we are stuck in some non league set up waiting for the dream to happen again, as much as some do not like the stadium it can sustain league status, we as fans always want as much as we can, same as business men I suppose.
 
I've given several answers so not sure what else you are expecting. However, I'm not involved in the club, so not sure it's my position to give any financial assurances. I've simply provide an alternative view to the doom and gloom that many want to share. We've had no control over our finances since moving into the Kassam and a move may change nothing. However (best case) we have the opportunity to start from scratch and negotiate a deal that allows the club to play (virtually) rent free with all match day revenue in a stadium that is commercially sustainable with or without football. Worse case, we are in the same position as we are now.
Who are we negotiating with?
Ourselves if we own the stadium..
 
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