Home Match Day Thread +++ 22/09/18 OUFC v Walsall Match Day Thread +++

I thought we looked thoroughly pedestrian yesterday. There were two or three passages of decent play and a few individuals did OK in patches, but in general it was very dispiriting.

There seems to be no drive, little proper team play, no understanding between the players, no threat up front (of course!), endless and risky cross field play at the back. It is football played by numbers, except when it goes wrong and then nobody has any real idea what to do. Free kicks, corners and crosses are terrible. Hoofing the ball at Smith is a waste of time, and taking him off and replacing him with Obika was pretty desperate from Robinson (c.f. Obika's pathetic attempt to stay on the ball when he had that potential one on one with their keeper. He didn't want to get there nearly enough - if at all.). Is Hanson rellay the most expensive player KR has ever bought? Blimey. From what I've seen, not as good as either Brannagan or Ruffels.

And the worst thing is that for all the injuries - I can't see things improving much when those players return. Eastwood will make a difference at the back (but not change the striker situation!), Mackie and Hall are write-offs and Carruthers didn't impress in pre-season. Browne has shown bit and pieces but he is a youngster and can't be expected to revitalise the team. With the likes of Whyte, Baptise, Holmes, Henry, Nelson etc you would think a competent manager should be able to create some sort of side that will compete - does anyone know where we can get one?

After thinking the cup draw was a brilliant one, I am now travelling to Tuesdays match more in dread than expectation. The last thing those players need at the moment is an absolutely humiliating drubbing, but based on yesterday that result is what I am predicting.

Have you seen Man City’s performance against Cardiff on MOTD. Bloody frightening
 
The number of voices calling for Robinson’s dismissal are growing by the game and I would say that on balance, I am just tipping towards the “he needs to go camp” - however, the thought terrifies me. Following the dismissal of Pep, our last recruitment process took an age, encompassed the likes of Kluivert, and resulted in none other than Karl Robinson. In a normal world with a Chairman that understands lower tier football, dismissing Robinson would seem the practical solution here - but Tiger has done nothing to convince me that he has any idea about Division One football and we sure as hell don’t need 2 or 3 months without a manager right now.

I’m not really sure how KR going camp is going to help
 
Yeah I appreciate that - I've perhaps been guilty of a bit of 'whataboutism' here, which isn't hugely helpful. They're different managers, in different leagues, and operating in different environments. I do think the points that you and others have made about being able to 'see what Appleton was trying to do' in his first few months is very much looking back with rose-tinted glasses (it got to a point where the phrase 'tippy tappy' was being used in pretty much every other post on the old forum back then), but it did work out in the end so fair enough. My point from the beginning has just been that I think there is value in giving a manager the time to build a team, and that, long term, having patience with a manager who is proven at this level will probably be better for the club than sacking a manager every time we go on a bad run.

I think you're right here. People are making comparisons with MApp but most of us were pretty fed up with him until he managed to ditch the dead wood (Newey, Hunt, Raynes) as well as his own poor signings (Brown, Howard, Long, Riley) and brought in those who would form the nucleus of the promotion team.

MApp's problem was one of personnel in a system that didn't work - you simply weren't going to be able to turn the squad he had assembled at the start of the season into one that played the football he wanted. Where he got incredibly lucky was in having DE to fund him to get rid of players and bring in those he needed. Not many coaches get that level of support and it must have cost a bit to pay off contracts and buy up those from players at other clubs.

In my view, KR's problem is one of decent personnel that aren't playing to their best and probably in the wrong system. It needs paring back to something simple like a 4-4-2 where the midfield protects the defence a bit more and the lone striker has someone to play the ball off too. It's become an unfashionable formation in recent years, but it might be what we need.

How wedded is KR to his system? MApp certainly was to his ('Plan B is Plan A') and it was only when he had the right players that it worked (which is why I'm sceptical whether his unlikely return would generate any form of result from this squad - MApp is an empire builder not a quick fixer). If KR shows some flexibility with this in the next few games, I could be convinced again.

KR isn't a bad manager. You don't rack up 420 games as a manager, one promotion and two playoff finishes prior to joining us and be a bad manager, can you? However, something clearly isn't working and you can tell it's getting to him. I'm still willing to give him time, despite how annoyed I've been with him regarding pre-season, but that may run out quickly unless he can find a system that works with this set of players.
 
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Where’s the guy who used to be ‘Highlights’ I believe on the old forum whose job was football match analysis. Would be interesting to hear his opinion now.
As for KR – agree he is stubborn. How and why he persists with one up front is beyond me. It clearly hasn’t been nor likely ever will succeed at this level. Just think back to the World Cup when England often used it with just Kane up front – it didn’t work even with him! Yes, I know he got the golden boot but that was mainly for penalties and remember that Croatia match? Yes England were all over them but only managed one and in the second half when Croatia had worked it out they completely outplayed a toothless England – ditto OUFC.
If opposing defenders have only one forward in their area they have more than enough support to deal with him. Packing the midfield and expecting them to come forward with support (and aid defenders) is failing on two levels. One - they pass the square and backward ball too many times (no surprise with only one up front) and two: the build-up play looks pretty but it’s not decisive which of course gives the opposing team all the time in the world to regroup and to defend in numbers and then hit us on the break.
True there is not a great choice available currently, but surely Obika with Smith is better than one of them failing alone. Obika can lay off, Smith should be able to get more chances and defenders will have more of a game on their hands meaning others in the team rather than bombing forward will have to support more. If your really stuck for a forward why not use Whyte who could play havoc in a centre forward role – just like Thierry Henry did when Wenger moved him in from winger to forward – what’s to lose? Just my opinion, no axe to grind just want an improvement in our goals for column – this can’t continue, i.e. just repeating the same failed game plan every game. This strategy probably works better away from home purely because the home team has to come forward whereas at the Kassam they can wait, subdue a lone striker and then go looking for goals.

The worrying thing about the last two home games is that they seem to represent where we are quite accurately. We’ve settled as an expansive footballing side who can look good but can t score and are always vulnerable at the back. Other teams all come with a plan and play with an intensity we lack, while we seem to be mentally still in pre-season
 
I think you're right here. People are making comparisons with MApp but most of us were pretty fed up with him until he managed to ditch the dead wood (Newey, Hunt, Raynes) as well as his own poor signings (Brown, Howard, Long, Riley) and brought in those who would form the nucleus of the promotion team.

MApp's problem was one of personnel in a system that didn't work - you simply weren't going to be able to turn the squad he had assembled at the start of the season into one that played the football he wanted. Where he got incredibly lucky was in having DE to fund him to get rid of players and bring in those he needed. Not many coaches get that level of support and it must have cost a bit to pay off contracts and buy up those from players at other clubs.

In my view, KR's problem is one of decent personnel that aren't playing to their best and probably in the wrong system. It needs paring back to something simple like a 4-4-2 where the midfield protects the defence a bit more and the lone striker has someone to play the ball off too. It's become an unfashionable formation in recent years, but it might be what we need.

How wedded is KR to his system? MApp certainly was to his ('Plan B is Plan A') and it was only when he had the right players that it worked (which is why I'm sceptical whether his unlikely return would generate any form of result from this squad - MApp is an empire builder not a quick fixer). If KR shows some flexibility with this in the next few games, I could be convinced again.

KR isn't a bad manager. You don't rack up 420 games as a manager, one promotion and two playoff finishes prior to joining us and be a bad manager, can you? However, something clearly isn't working and you can tell it's getting to him. I'm still willing to give him time, despite how annoyed I've been with him regarding pre-season, but that may run out quickly unless he can find a system that works with this set of players.
4-4-2 is still popular at our level, there were at least 5 teams who played that system in the Prem yesterday and is gradually becoming more widely used again.
If you don't have a competant lone striker, (which we haven't) the system fails from the first minute. As I said before. KR's persistance with something that isn't working is very worrying. He says he has done all he can. I don't think so Karl. But if you think that then please jog on and find another job!!
 
I thought we looked thoroughly pedestrian yesterday. There were two or three passages of decent play and a few individuals did OK in patches, but in general it was very dispiriting.

There seems to be no drive, little proper team play, no understanding between the players, no threat up front (of course!), endless and risky cross field play at the back. It is football played by numbers, except when it goes wrong and then nobody has any real idea what to do. Free kicks, corners and crosses are terrible. Hoofing the ball at Smith is a waste of time, and taking him off and replacing him with Obika was pretty desperate from Robinson (c.f. Obika's pathetic attempt to stay on the ball when he had that potential one on one with their keeper. He didn't want to get there nearly enough - if at all.). Is Hanson rellay the most expensive player KR has ever bought? Blimey. From what I've seen, not as good as either Brannagan or Ruffels.

And the worst thing is that for all the injuries - I can't see things improving much when those players return. Eastwood will make a difference at the back (but not change the striker situation!), Mackie and Hall are write-offs and Carruthers didn't impress in pre-season. Browne has shown bit and pieces but he is a youngster and can't be expected to revitalise the team. With the likes of Whyte, Baptise, Holmes, Henry, Nelson etc you would think a competent manager should be able to create some sort of side that will compete - does anyone know where we can get one?

After thinking the cup draw was a brilliant one, I am now travelling to Tuesdays match more in dread than expectation. The last thing those players need at the moment is an absolutely humiliating drubbing, but based on yesterday that result is what I am predicting.
There were occasions yesterday when playing the ball out from the back that we put 2 extra passes in, when I don't think we needed to. It made our play ponderous as players were just standing still waiting for the ball to arrive and it allowed Walsall to cover it off. There is too much space in the middle of the park for the opposition as well - we are so easy to play against at times. I'm at a point where we need to play 3 CMs out there and work out the formation after that. It will secure us more defensively and make us harder to break down. For example, when one of Hanson of Baptiste chase a ball, it leaves acres of room for the opposition to get into and we are vulnerable to the counter attack.
 
The 3 in front of the 2 are not doing much work defensively. The middle one of the 3 should drop back when required and the 2 wider players should tuck in if need be. Big gaps occur in this system when people either can't play in that system or they are not doing their job. KR just hopes whoever he picks it will come good eventually but it doesn't look like it's going to!! We have the players to play a simpler system so he should do it!!
 
The first objective in every game should be a clean sheet, in our position I would not mind two or three boring 0-0 draws, just to at least raise the moral of the players, play good old 4 4 2, if KR cannot manage to stem the tide in theext couple of league games he should go.
 
I’m not convinced at all by this clamour for 4-4-2.
We haven’t got any strikers capable of scoring goals... so let’s play 2 of them instead of 1?
Our best players are the players who play in behind the striker & it’s a system we’ve been using since pre-season. To change this now would cause even more upheaval from a side having issue clicking into place.

Obika CAN hold up the ball, but is incapable of being in a threatening attacking position when we need him to be.
Smith is slightly more lightweight than Obika, i am holding off saying anymore about Smith at this time.

Felt sorry for both strikers yesterday however, we must have had like 30 crosses yesterday - maybe we put in a good cross once, potentially twice. Final delivery was woeful.
Our goal yesterday came from all 3 of our attacking midfielders turning their men with some clever link up play, good touches & competant enough finish. So the plan for the next game is to switch from the only way we have managed to score any sort of goal. Not convinced!

The players need to step up and I don’t believe changing formation would help
 
I like that a lot.
But Robinson is stubborn and won’t do that
 
What about 4 3 3
Mitchell
Garbett Mous Nelson Norman
Hanson Brannigan Baptiste
Whyte Henry Holmes
That could work. Although from what I've seen of Hanson so far I would play Ruffels instead and he is left footed. When fit Browne would challenge Henry for the central spot. As soon as Carruthers is fit KR will put him straight in somewhere.
Won't happen though.
 
Just watched Robinsons interview, same old same old, everybody else's fault, and the ref, my god he got everything wrong.
 
Wouldn’t be a lone striker in that formation, he would be central in a 3 up front, Liverpool play that formation.

Robinson’s obsession with a formation which clearly doesn’t work mystifies me, but he doesn’t seem willing to change it at any cost, even his job.
 
Glad to read this morning that were going to stand up and be men. Phew...

Good though to see Henry at least acknowledging we cant keep using the early days bullcrap.
 
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