Home Match Day Thread 19/09/20 L1 - OUFC v Sunderland

The only positive for me today was Atkinson.

.....not impressed with the goalkeeping either.
 
Who do we think Robinson wishes he could get rid of then?

I wouldn’t be all that surprised if Sykes was one he was targeting. It was only 9 months ago that Robinson was basically done with him and touting him around for a move away. Fair play to him for working his way back into favour but I don’t think it will take a huge dip in form for Robinson to lose patience again.

Perhaps Atkinson is another and maybe Henry or Brannagan, or perhaps both, will feel the wrath of Robinson in the coming days.
 
I wouldn’t be all that surprised if Sykes was one he was targeting. It was only 9 months ago that Robinson was basically done with him and touting him around for a move away. Fair play to him for working his way back into favour but I don’t think it will take a huge dip in form for Robinson to lose patience again.

Perhaps Atkinson is another and maybe Henry or Brannagan, or perhaps both, will feel the wrath of Robinson in the coming days.

I’m not sure this could be more wrong if tried.
 
I wouldn’t be all that surprised if Sykes was one he was targeting. It was only 9 months ago that Robinson was basically done with him and touting him around for a move away. Fair play to him for working his way back into favour but I don’t think it will take a huge dip in form for Robinson to lose patience again.

Perhaps Atkinson is another and maybe Henry or Brannagan, or perhaps both, will feel the wrath of Robinson in the coming days.

Would never be the managers fault, would it?
 
I wouldn’t be all that surprised if Sykes was one he was targeting. It was only 9 months ago that Robinson was basically done with him and touting him around for a move away. Fair play to him for working his way back into favour but I don’t think it will take a huge dip in form for Robinson to lose patience again.

Perhaps Atkinson is another and maybe Henry or Brannagan, or perhaps both, will feel the wrath of Robinson in the coming days.

Would never be the managers fault, would it?
 
Sam Long - Not a good defender at this level, offers nothing going forward, is out of position so many times and offers attacking wingers who have the ability to get the ball into the box. HAS TO GO..
James Henry - Kept us up two seasons ago with his goals & outstanding contribution however his overall performance last season, during the play offs and in the few games this season are well below par. TIME TO GO
Simon Eastwood - I have always been his biggest fan and always will however his weaknesses and inconsistencies are causing our back 4 to panic. TIME FOR JACK STEVENS TO HAVE A RUN
Matty Taylor - No service, No goals, we created so many chances each game last season, a poacher like Matty has 20 - 25 goals in his sights, currently 10 or 12 goals this season is where we could end up.
New members of the team obviously have something to offer, however they need to Start producing.
AT PRESENT WE LOOK A WEAKER TEAM THAN LAST SEASON,.........
 
I’m not sure this could be more wrong if tried.

You think Sykes played well today ? Last week ? At Wembley ? In the play offs ? He had a purple patch pre lockdown, if that’s enough to keep you in the team halfway through September in a new season then on that basis Henry is undroppable, so is Brannagan and so is anyone else still at the club who was part of our great form throughout February and March.
 
Some late night brain farts seeing as I’ve just finished a bunch of incredibly boring work nonsense:

The defence needs fixing. Badly. A reliable and trustworthy defence is essential to any moderately successful team because it allows the players further forward to free themselves. Your defence doesn’t just stop goals going in, it allows you to score more because of how they enable your midfield and attack to play. Moore has played around 25 EFL games and is now the senior centre back, Atkinson was in non-league until a few months ago, Sean Clare has barely played a game at right back in his life and is essentially being turned into one on the job, and Sam Long is a former centre back turned right back who is now being asked to play left back, because our left back who used to be a centre midfielder is injured. Meanwhile our 34 year old player-coach has done himself a mischief, and the manager claims that our teenage central defensive option is apparently so poor that even teams in non-league won’t touch him. That’s a situation we’ve created for ourselves, by signing these players and choosing not to sign others. If it’s rubbish it’s because we made it rubbish.

We barely had any defenders last season either - we had two right backs (until January when we then had one), three centre backs and one left back. Six defenders; five after Christmas. Atkinson joined in January but immediately went out on loan again and was only briefly recalled to sit on the bench for a couple of games. We somehow kept a clean bill of health bar Mousinho getting injured in late Feb, but then the pandemic shut everything down in early March before anything else happened that made it an issue. We then started this season with six defenders once again, only with Sean Clare instead of Chris Cadden and with Rob Atkinson instead of Rob Dickie. Two undeniable downgrades in terms of the here and now - potential is neither guaranteed to be fulfilled nor remotely relevant in the present. And it isn’t hindsight to say this, because concerns were being raised about this many weeks ago, before Dickie had even been sold let alone not been replaced.

Yet we’ve got how many wingers / forwards? About 9? Taylor, Winnall, Agyei, Osei, Asonganyi, Henry, Hall, Cooper, Napa? And apparently the plan is to plough what’s left of the cap into a tenth option, and bring in inexperienced players on loan to prop up the defence, maybe? Is that seriously the plan?

Sometimes you really do need to simply write your first eleven on a piece of paper, then write the name of a second player underneath each of those names who is the “backup” to that position, until you get to 22 players with each position having two names that you feel are at least good enough to play in a match. You would be amazed how many top level clubs work this way - they genuinely build their squad structures with a marker pen. Obviously some positions might be more evenly matched than others, but you get a squad of footballers by doing this. We however seem to cover that part of the team sheet over and treat the defence like it’s some sort of inconvenience, and pretend that only sexy wingers and forwards exist. At some point we are going to have to at least attempt to have a basic and adequate defence, where one injury or a straight red card doesn’t suddenly plunge things into chaos. We’ve been playing with the bare bones at the back for over a calendar year now - probably more than 18 months if you really trace it back - and when you then start reducing the quality while failing to increase the quantity, it’s not going to prove helpful.

Perhaps most importantly, however, we are going to need to get one or two in who are okay / fairly decent players but are strong leaders. Talkers, organisers, communicators and battlers who are up for getting their kit dirty. There’s too much emphasis on, and obsession with, this notion of beautiful technical mavericks being the be all and end all. You need some players in there who can actually have a bloody scrap, and that isn’t anything to do with age. They don’t need to be 30+ and on their last legs, they just need to have hair on their chest and not be afraid to point a few fingers, and ruffle a few feathers. That needs to be allowed to happen - we can’t just keep signing quiet little boys who won’t talk back, while blindly chasing some purist fantasy where only swashbuckling football is allowed, and the players and manager blow kisses to their adoring fans at the final whistle, who in turn throw yellow roses onto the pitch while screaming “forza, forza!” No football team at any level is ever successful without those individuals, right up to the Liverpool’s and Man City’s of the world. You need to have a couple of players who really want it, and who aren’t afraid to pin their own team mates against the wall if they aren’t pulling their weight, let alone go eyeball to eyeball with the opposition.

Yes, the league season is two games old, and we will probably be ‘fine’ by the time we’ve played 46. We could just as easily win the next two games, and that would be ‘fine’ as well. But we haven’t won a proper game inside 90 minutes, bar the tinpot reserve game, since Shrewsbury. We have drawn four (Pompey x2, Wimbledon and Watford in the league cup) and lost three (Wembley, two league games). We can’t start every single season by spluttering through the first 8-10 games and being lucky to average a point per match, and then hoping that when we finally get going the pack hasn’t gotten too far in front. At some point someone has to go, “There is a flaw in the design here, if this happens every season then something is wrong in the way it’s set up at the start.”

There is still time to turn a few dials and sort a few things out, but they do need turning.
 
Play that system again, WITH the same personnel, and things will turn dark if Stanley beat us

Things will turn dark anyway. Happens at about 7:30PM this time of year.

Things will get light again after about 11 hours.
 
Some late night brain farts seeing as I’ve just finished a bunch of incredibly boring work nonsense:

The defence needs fixing. Badly. A reliable and trustworthy defence is essential to any moderately successful team because it allows the players further forward to free themselves. Your defence doesn’t just stop goals going in, it allows you to score more because of how they enable your midfield and attack to play. Moore has played around 25 EFL games and is now the senior centre back, Atkinson was in non-league until a few months ago, Sean Clare has barely played a game at right back in his life and is essentially being turned into one on the job, and Sam Long is a former centre back turned right back who is now being asked to play left back, because our left back who used to be a centre midfielder is injured. Meanwhile our 34 year old player-coach has done himself a mischief, and the manager claims that our teenage central defensive option is apparently so poor that even teams in non-league won’t touch him. That’s a situation we’ve created for ourselves, by signing these players and choosing not to sign others. If it’s rubbish it’s because we made it rubbish.

We barely had any defenders last season either - we had two right backs (until January when we then had one), three centre backs and one left back. Six defenders; five after Christmas. Atkinson joined in January but immediately went out on loan again and was only briefly recalled to sit on the bench for a couple of games. We somehow kept a clean bill of health bar Mousinho getting injured in late Feb, but then the pandemic shut everything down in early March before anything else happened that made it an issue. We then started this season with six defenders once again, only with Sean Clare instead of Chris Cadden and with Rob Atkinson instead of Rob Dickie. Two undeniable downgrades in terms of the here and now - potential is neither guaranteed to be fulfilled nor remotely relevant in the present. And it isn’t hindsight to say this, because concerns were being raised about this many weeks ago, before Dickie had even been sold let alone not been replaced.

Yet we’ve got how many wingers / forwards? About 9? Taylor, Winnall, Agyei, Osei, Asonganyi, Henry, Hall, Cooper, Napa? And apparently the plan is to plough what’s left of the cap into a tenth option, and bring in inexperienced players on loan to prop up the defence, maybe? Is that seriously the plan?

Sometimes you really do need to simply write your first eleven on a piece of paper, then write the name of a second player underneath each of those names who is the “backup” to that position, until you get to 22 players with each position having two names that you feel are at least good enough to play in a match. You would be amazed how many top level clubs work this way - they genuinely build their squad structures with a marker pen. Obviously some positions might be more evenly matched than others, but you get a squad of footballers by doing this. We however seem to cover that part of the team sheet over and treat the defence like it’s some sort of inconvenience, and pretend that only sexy wingers and forwards exist. At some point we are going to have to at least attempt to have a basic and adequate defence, where one injury or a straight red card doesn’t suddenly plunge things into chaos. We’ve been playing with the bare bones at the back for over a calendar year now - probably more than 18 months if you really trace it back - and when you then start reducing the quality while failing to increase the quantity, it’s not going to prove helpful.

Perhaps most importantly, however, we are going to need to get one or two in who are okay / fairly decent players but are strong leaders. Talkers, organisers, communicators and battlers who are up for getting their kit dirty. There’s too much emphasis on, and obsession with, this notion of beautiful technical mavericks being the be all and end all. You need some players in there who can actually have a bloody scrap, and that isn’t anything to do with age. They don’t need to be 30+ and on their last legs, they just need to have hair on their chest and not be afraid to point a few fingers, and ruffle a few feathers. That needs to be allowed to happen - we can’t just keep signing quiet little boys who won’t talk back, while blindly chasing some purist fantasy where only swashbuckling football is allowed, and the players and manager blow kisses to their adoring fans at the final whistle, who in turn throw yellow roses onto the pitch while screaming “forza, forza!” No football team at any level is ever successful without those individuals, right up to the Liverpool’s and Man City’s of the world. You need to have a couple of players who really want it, and who aren’t afraid to pin their own team mates against the wall if they aren’t pulling their weight, let alone go eyeball to eyeball with the opposition.

Yes, the league season is two games old, and we will probably be ‘fine’ by the time we’ve played 46. We could just as easily win the next two games, and that would be ‘fine’ as well. But we haven’t won a proper game inside 90 minutes, bar the tinpot reserve game, since Shrewsbury. We have drawn four (Pompey x2, Wimbledon and Watford in the league cup) and lost three (Wembley, two league games). We can’t start every single season by spluttering through the first 8-10 games and being lucky to average a point per match, and then hoping that when we finally get going the pack hasn’t gotten too far in front. At some point someone has to go, “There is a flaw in the design here, if this happens every season then something is wrong in the way it’s set up at the start.”

There is still time to turn a few dials and sort a few things out, but they do need turning.
Yeah but Jeremy Corbyn would have been worse.



(Sorry, couldn't resist ☺️)
 
Today demonstrated how much we miss Gorrin, Ruffles . And of course Dickie.

Our game depends on winning plenty of ball in midfield. Kelly is not strong or quick enough. Henry looks shot, Sykes is playing like he wants out. The engine room was inadequate.


Clare cannot play orthodox right back, he cannot mark his man. He does have ability but needs to be further up the pitch, he appears on early view to be a right footed Luke Garbutt.

I also thought Osei Yaw did better than Taylor and should have been kept on.

Lot of work needed on the training ground, this was shoddy stuff against well drilled but really quite limited opponents.

I think until Gorrin is back the best option in our 4-3-3 formation would be Forde.
 
Alex Gorrin badly missed at the moment. Often sniffs our danger, and takes one for the team. Protecting the centre backs. Although I don’t think it would make much of a difference, when you have players being played out of position. The buck stops with the manager on that one.

It would of looked better trying Elechi at left back, and Long at RB. Clare in the left wing, and put Forde on for Henry. That would of been my choice.

We move on to Accrington, and hopefully kick start our season. It can’t get any worse than yesterday, because that’s the poorest I’ve seen us play since we lost at home to Bury under Clotet.
 
The Brentford game - albeit a low key PSF - was the moment I thought Clare could be shown up as an orthodox right back.

OK he was up against a good player in Sergi Canos but his back tracking and poor body shape was an invitation
for Canos to ruthlessly expose his clear defensive deficiencies. I have seen nothing that leads me to think Sean Clare is anything
but a wide midfield player. And we simply have too many of those at the club already.

Clare just after 2 mins in.

 
Some late night brain farts seeing as I’ve just finished a bunch of incredibly boring work nonsense:

The defence needs fixing. Badly. A reliable and trustworthy defence is essential to any moderately successful team because it allows the players further forward to free themselves. Your defence doesn’t just stop goals going in, it allows you to score more because of how they enable your midfield and attack to play. Moore has played around 25 EFL games and is now the senior centre back, Atkinson was in non-league until a few months ago, Sean Clare has barely played a game at right back in his life and is essentially being turned into one on the job, and Sam Long is a former centre back turned right back who is now being asked to play left back, because our left back who used to be a centre midfielder is injured. Meanwhile our 34 year old player-coach has done himself a mischief, and the manager claims that our teenage central defensive option is apparently so poor that even teams in non-league won’t touch him. That’s a situation we’ve created for ourselves, by signing these players and choosing not to sign others. If it’s rubbish it’s because we made it rubbish.

We barely had any defenders last season either - we had two right backs (until January when we then had one), three centre backs and one left back. Six defenders; five after Christmas. Atkinson joined in January but immediately went out on loan again and was only briefly recalled to sit on the bench for a couple of games. We somehow kept a clean bill of health bar Mousinho getting injured in late Feb, but then the pandemic shut everything down in early March before anything else happened that made it an issue. We then started this season with six defenders once again, only with Sean Clare instead of Chris Cadden and with Rob Atkinson instead of Rob Dickie. Two undeniable downgrades in terms of the here and now - potential is neither guaranteed to be fulfilled nor remotely relevant in the present. And it isn’t hindsight to say this, because concerns were being raised about this many weeks ago, before Dickie had even been sold let alone not been replaced.

Yet we’ve got how many wingers / forwards? About 9? Taylor, Winnall, Agyei, Osei, Asonganyi, Henry, Hall, Cooper, Napa? And apparently the plan is to plough what’s left of the cap into a tenth option, and bring in inexperienced players on loan to prop up the defence, maybe? Is that seriously the plan?

Sometimes you really do need to simply write your first eleven on a piece of paper, then write the name of a second player underneath each of those names who is the “backup” to that position, until you get to 22 players with each position having two names that you feel are at least good enough to play in a match. You would be amazed how many top level clubs work this way - they genuinely build their squad structures with a marker pen. Obviously some positions might be more evenly matched than others, but you get a squad of footballers by doing this. We however seem to cover that part of the team sheet over and treat the defence like it’s some sort of inconvenience, and pretend that only sexy wingers and forwards exist. At some point we are going to have to at least attempt to have a basic and adequate defence, where one injury or a straight red card doesn’t suddenly plunge things into chaos. We’ve been playing with the bare bones at the back for over a calendar year now - probably more than 18 months if you really trace it back - and when you then start reducing the quality while failing to increase the quantity, it’s not going to prove helpful.

Perhaps most importantly, however, we are going to need to get one or two in who are okay / fairly decent players but are strong leaders. Talkers, organisers, communicators and battlers who are up for getting their kit dirty. There’s too much emphasis on, and obsession with, this notion of beautiful technical mavericks being the be all and end all. You need some players in there who can actually have a bloody scrap, and that isn’t anything to do with age. They don’t need to be 30+ and on their last legs, they just need to have hair on their chest and not be afraid to point a few fingers, and ruffle a few feathers. That needs to be allowed to happen - we can’t just keep signing quiet little boys who won’t talk back, while blindly chasing some purist fantasy where only swashbuckling football is allowed, and the players and manager blow kisses to their adoring fans at the final whistle, who in turn throw yellow roses onto the pitch while screaming “forza, forza!” No football team at any level is ever successful without those individuals, right up to the Liverpool’s and Man City’s of the world. You need to have a couple of players who really want it, and who aren’t afraid to pin their own team mates against the wall if they aren’t pulling their weight, let alone go eyeball to eyeball with the opposition.

Yes, the league season is two games old, and we will probably be ‘fine’ by the time we’ve played 46. We could just as easily win the next two games, and that would be ‘fine’ as well. But we haven’t won a proper game inside 90 minutes, bar the tinpot reserve game, since Shrewsbury. We have drawn four (Pompey x2, Wimbledon and Watford in the league cup) and lost three (Wembley, two league games). We can’t start every single season by spluttering through the first 8-10 games and being lucky to average a point per match, and then hoping that when we finally get going the pack hasn’t gotten too far in front. At some point someone has to go, “There is a flaw in the design here, if this happens every season then something is wrong in the way it’s set up at the start.”

There is still time to turn a few dials and sort a few things out, but they do need turning.
Good post. I totally agree about our defence. I’ve been open about my thoughts about long and ruffles and been shot to pieces over it too. But I was hopeful Clare would be good and we were looking for a left back. I was also impressed with Atkinson Pre season But should he be under so much pressure? If I had one defence ;-) of them I would say we’re missing Gorrin who looks like the only midfielder who can play that defensive role.

What I find just a unnerving is our midfield be that centre or wide. Gorrin, Brannagan are the two stand outs but look beyond that and it’s all a bit iffy Sykes and Forde Look like good players who are looking for their role in the team? Inconsistent and a bit lost. Cooper I would say has potential but he’s in the first team in a new country with pressure on his shoulders. Maybe will come good But not ready right now. But the rest blimey! Hanson, McGuane, Kelly, Napa (Yes him). Add the fact that Henry is playing like something is up with him ever since lockdown?
We also have the rawness of Agyei, Asonganyi and Osei again they may come good but first teamers?

its a bloody mess.

We have two forwards who if we put them up for sale would hold interest from every club in this league and some above. But we can’t seem to create Jack s**t for them!
 
Looking at some of the new players
Kelly newish, should be used as a number 10 he finds passes and in that position he can cause problems and get us behind defences
Clare as everyone can see it’s not working for him as a RB, not his fault
McGuane haven’t seen much that impressed me yet, came with some hype a let down so far
Cooper young abs raw but does show glimpses
Winnall must be totally unfit not even to be on the bench to give us a few minutes
Osei young and raw, showed yesterday why he shouldn’t start
Re Forde played very well against Watford who played a very good team
Why didn’t he play in Gorrins place with Kelly the number 10, because let’s face it Henry has been so poor of late,
Matty has little or no service
We are missing Gorrin more than I thought we would but Kelly is NOT a replacement for that role. When you have not a natural right back playing, together with 2 relatively inexperienced CBs, at the level, and the Sam playing out of position at left back, in all shows why we could have shipped 4 yesterday, but thankfully black cats were finishing badly, their first was pin ball lucky, their second Atkinson moved off the tackle too easier and what was Moore up to, ended up on his knee ....... Poor Poor Poor
Sykes showed one or two flashes ....
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Gorrin was the single most influential player last season. His ability to intercept forward passes and distribute to the flanks was second to none. That combined with dropping back to assist the defence made him incredibly versatile and allowed the rest of the team to thrive. Sure we had more quality in other areas too but he was the link between defence and attack and did it flawlessly for the most part.
He cannot return from injury fast enough.
 
The defence needs fixing. Badly. A reliable and trustworthy defence is essential to any moderately successful team because it allows the players further forward to free themselves. Your defence doesn’t just stop goals going in, it allows you to score more because of how they enable your midfield and attack to play. Moore has played around 25 EFL games and is now the senior centre back, Atkinson was in non-league until a few months ago, Sean Clare has barely played a game at right back in his life and is essentially being turned into one on the job, and Sam Long is a former centre back turned right back who is now being asked to play left back, because our left back who used to be a centre midfielder is injured. Meanwhile our 34 year old player-coach has done himself a mischief, and the manager claims that our teenage central defensive option is apparently so poor that even teams in non-league won’t touch him. That’s a situation we’ve created for ourselves, by signing these players and choosing not to sign others. If it’s rubbish it’s because we made it rubbish.
So true.

I like Robinson, but for a manager with more than a decades experience, sometimes his naivety astounds me. He seems to completely overlook the basic necessity of needing a strong, settled backline.

Can you imagine Mapp starting a season with a squad of defenders as inexperienced as this?!?

For me, with Mous ageing and injured, Ruffels injured, Long and Moore not yet the finished article, Atkinson a complete novice at this level, and Jones obviously too inexperienced, and apparently not deemed good enough anyway, I think we need to bring in 2 experienced senior CB, as Moore and Atkinson are simply not ready to be first choice pairing yet, and we also need genuine competition/cover for Ruffs and Long, and if that means we have to get a few players off the books in order to do it, then so be it.

At this level, if you want success, you need experience, character, strength and aggression, as well as quality, but right now, there's too much inexperience, and a lack of quality, fitness and physicality in this squad, that you only get from established, senior players, and it needs addressing ASAP
 
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