National News Boris Johnson - Ousted Former PM

YellowTaxi said:
And what exactly did the brutality and vindictiveness consist of? I see no reason to take Watson the main parliamentary backer of the liar and fantasist Carl Beech as a reliable witness. hell the article even says he considered standing for the Lib Dems
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I'm surprised it took you so long, never for a moment thought you might believe what he and others have said about the labour party under Corbyn and the far left.

He said he considered joining for 5 minutes, clearly he didnt consider it seriously but I suppose you need to try and discredit anything he says.
 
Ed Davey got a bit of a landslide...........................

Another entitled, white, private school, university educated "Tory lite" boy in a top job. :)

Might ask for a recount though............ low turnout...

Ed Davey MP: 42,756 (63.5%)
Layla Moran MP: 24,564 (36.5%)
Turnout: 57.6%
 
QR said:
This one's for Essexyellows as he doesn't mind being lied to because Blair once told an enormous porky. Strange logic but hey ho.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1299033413891039232
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Interesting how we all read the same things and interpret them differently, I read his posts as saying all politicians are only really interested in power so say what they think is the right thing to say at that time ( most likely that will be a contradiction or a lie ) and the colour of the rosette on their jacket doesn't change that truth.

But then I might be reading his posts and getting the complete wrong end of the stick too!!!
 
Oxt1 said:
Interesting how we all read the same things and interpret them differently, I read his posts as saying all politicians are only really interested in power so say what they think is the right thing to say at that time ( most likely that will be a contradiction or a lie ) and the colour of the rosette on their jacket doesn't change that truth.

But then I might be reading his posts and getting the complete wrong end of the stick too!!!
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You are correct.
They say what is "right" at the time.
That is politics.
However, in this digital world we also get digital hindsight and hindsight is a wonderous thing....
 
Essexyellows said:
You are correct.
They say what is "right" at the time.
That is politics.
However, in this digital world we also get digital hindsight and hindsight is a wonderous thing....
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I don't know how you manage to confuse out and out lies with hindsight.
 
Oh, unless you mean 'how is Doris expected to know what's going to come out of his mouth next?'. You might have a point!
 
Essexyellows said:
However, in this digital world we also get digital hindsight and hindsight is a wonderous thing....
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We also live in a world where people, in some cases, try to paint foresight out as hindsight by dismissing concerns that are raised at the time as Project Fear, and then shouting down the same people saying “I said this would happen” after the horse finally bolts by calling them negative, or accusing them of politicising the issue.

As you rightly say elsewhere: the virus doesn’t move - we move the virus. Well, similar could be said of politicians’ refusal to take any sort of responsibility or to be held accountable for anything they do, or perhaps don’t do. Our behaviour dictates what theirs is allowed to look like. I’m concerned that the consequences of actions have now become irrelevant; people just want to fire the bullet and deal with any wars that start later.
 
'Hindsight' is a line trotted out by EY endlessly. Despite the fact that even on an obscure football forum (never mind all the experts, scientists etc!) people were pointing out the flaws and mistakes *at the time*. It's all part of the 'arms around care homes', 'never considering herd immunity' approach of just repeating 'alternative facts' as often as you can and hoping that people have the attention span of a gnat. Ally that with 'the time for looking at what anyone might have done wrong is not now, it is in the future - preferably after a Royal Commission that takes ten years to report' and you end up with an unaccountable administration, who see truth as 'inconvenient'.
 
QR said:
I don't know how you manage to confuse out and out lies with hindsight.
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They are all economical with the truth at best.
Now if that is deemed a lie, so be it.
However they all do it, sometimes to protect us from the harsh reality, and sometimes to embellish their own standing/position.

When it comes to Covid it will pan out that the virus was already in the global community way before the WHO/Government got wind of it.
By then it is too late.
So you slip into damage limitation...... "If 20k die we have done well"........... we are well past double that now.
And now we are,like it or not, working towards herd immunity.
There are no other options as yet.
Unless you are Chinese and just vaccinate folk without trialling it first.... please queue here...not!
C`est la vie. Truth hurts.
 
Essexyellows said:
They are all economical with the truth at best.
Now if that is deemed a lie, so be it.
However they all do it, sometimes to protect us from the harsh reality, and sometimes to embellish their own standing/position.
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I don't necessarily think that being economical with the truth is always seen as a lie.
But a lie is definitely a lie, don't you agree?
 
I’ve seen Primal Scream retweeting yet again about Jacob Rees Mogg’s company paying no corporation tax.

It’s a partnership you f*****g idiots. And partnerships don’t pay corporation tax.

The tax is down to individual partners.
 
ljs said:
I don't necessarily think that being economical with the truth is always seen as a lie.
But a lie is definitely a lie, don't you agree?
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Depends on the circumstances.
People can say what they saw which isn`t necessarily factually true, but they believe it is.
Likewise people can believe the information they are provided with is true, they then state that and trip over later. EG: Politics.

Old saying...... Edgar Allan Poe: "Believe nothing you hear, and only half that you see."
 
Essexyellows said:
Depends on the circumstances.
People can say what they saw which isn`t necessarily factually true, but they believe it is.
Likewise people can believe the information they are provided with is true, they then state that and trip over later. EG: Politics.

Old saying...... Edgar Allan Poe: "Believe nothing you hear, and only half that you see."
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I think I was plain when I said a lie (you know, like saying you didn't say something, which you did)...not an interpretation.
 
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ljs said:
I think I was plain when I said a lie (you know, like saying you didn't say something, which you did)...not an interpretation.
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That`s just forgetting .............or "changing your position".... ? :)
 
RyanioBirdio said:
An EU v US trade negotiation is like two heavyweights swinging at each other. We’re about to step into the ring like one of those stereotypical scrawny geeks with glasses, slicked back hair and bones showing clean through the skin.
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Wouldn't be so negative. We've taken back control from unelected bureaucrats and now have the Mastermind Cummings and the cream of Aussie politics in Abbott running the show.
 
I think we *have* to make sure that this thread is properly archived so that those trying to argue that a lie isn't a lie, that governments need to lie and that just denying you ever said something (when you plainly did) is absolutely fine are able to read it when the next government of a different hue is elected. I suspect their definitions of truth and honour might suddenly have become a little less elastic!
 
ZeroTheHero said:
I think we *have* to make sure that this thread is properly archived so that those trying to argue that a lie isn't a lie, that governments need to lie and that just denying you ever said something (when you plainly did) is absolutely fine are able to read it when the next government of a different hue is elected. I suspect their definitions of truth and honour might suddenly have become a little less elastic!
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Of course they will.......... same as "your lot" (whoever that may be).

They all P**s in the same pot.

PS: You might need a very long archive.............................. the hue won`t change for a few years yet. ;-)
 
I don't have a 'lot'. I think all governments do a mixture of good, wise things and bad, stupid things. I generally vote for the party whose candidate is local (rather than parachuted in), whose candidate has a good reputation locally for carrying out constituency work and the party whose views are least offensive. Granted, that isn't often the Tories (due to my own personal outlook) but it has been the Liberal, Labour, Green and Independent at various times in the last few decades. In my area, first past the post ensures the old rosette/pig/Tory conundrum means that it doesn't really matter though!

I am quite happy to criticise some of the policies or outcomes of whoever the government (or opposition) is, whether I voted for them or not. I think people who blindly and uncritically support one party or another come hell or high water have let their critical facilities atrophy to a dangerous degree.
 
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