International News Black Lives Matter

bazzer9461 said:

Whatever

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Enlighten me in English and words in the OED

Pete Burrett said:

I realised I didn't have an understanding of who was (and wasn't) a terrorist, so looked it up:

A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

Mandela was a terrorist based on that definition. Whether you feel his actions were justified given the situation in South Africa at the time is another matter, and perhaps a question of personal interpretation.

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Mandela was fighting for the rights of people that is people of all colour and race, the problem was the South African govt were acting in an oppressive manner by enforcing apartheid hence why as you know they were the pariahs in the eyes of the world.

stokeu said:

Enlighten me in English and words in the OED

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If you have an opinion you have an opinion everyone has opinions yes a lot are construed as hate, bigotry and prejudice but if a person makes a comment about another in a bigoted sense then yes is racism but a minority of racist opinions are backed up with actions. Unfortunately unfortunately people say and do things and it’s taken out of context and then others jump on it and make more of what it was.
It appears there are people who can’t see that white property are making comments about the violence and now the removal of statues they have been in place for centuries and they seemed to be getting labelled racist. I doubt very much whether EY is a racist.

SteMerritt said:

So you were against the Jimmy Savile statues being removed then?

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Was he ever convicted of an offence in a court?
Or are we saying "lots of people said he did it so he did it"?
Allegations surfaced a year after he died..lots of enquires concluded he was guilty but he never stood trial.

Rocky ground mob rule.......

QR said:

Be careful. You sound like a racist clutching at straws.

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No I am saying the person in question may have thought "You know what these anti-slavery folk are right"..... and then thought how he could best make reparations.
No straw clutching needed here,nor throwing false accusations at people you don`t know on an internet forum.

Pete Burrett said:

If you take down monuments to evildoers people will forget the dark parts of history, which is why nobody knows who Hitler was.

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Come back in 300 years and ask the same question.

Essexyellows said:

Come back in 300 years and ask the same question.

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I assume you did understand the post - as you're a bright chap - but are you suggesting that in 300 years time no-one will know who Hitler was?

m said:

Come on!

I know you enjoy the agent provocateur role but really?

Colson traded slaves so he could afford to campaign against slavery?!

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No I`m saying others campaigned against slavery, Colson could well have decided to "change sides" and put something back for less fortunate folk.

Pete Burrett said:

I assume you did understand the post - as you're a bright chap - but are you suggesting that in 300 years time no-one will know who Hitler was?

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I`m saying he will be a historical figure who did bad things and that can not be changed no matter how much wittering there is..... there certainly won`t be statues (I Hope!) but there will be memorials to people from our time that, in 300 years, will be seen as unacceptable.

Essexyellows said:

I`m saying he will be a historical figure who did bad things and that can not be changed no matter how much wittering there is..... there certainly won`t be statues (I Hope!) but there will be memorials to people from our time that, in 300 years, will be seen as unacceptable.

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The point of the quote was that evildoers don't have to have monuments dedicated to them to remain evil.

Essexyellows said:

Was he ever convicted of an offence in a court?
Or are we saying "lots of people said he did it so he did it"?
Allegations surfaced a year after he died..lots of enquires concluded he was guilty but he never stood trial.

Rocky ground mob rule.......

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Definitely guilty but yes died before arrests and trial could happen, but I think a few have jumped on the bandwagon claiming he sexually abused/assaulted them. But definitely guilty
.

Essexyellows said:

Was he ever convicted of an offence in a court?
Or are we saying "lots of people said he did it so he did it"?
Allegations surfaced a year after he died..lots of enquires concluded he was guilty but he never stood trial.

Rocky ground mob rule.......

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So Essex now backing two dodgy blondes- Savile and Johnson

The way this is going it is going to turn out more divisive in this country than good as more and more Britons start to object to the elimination of a thousand years of British history.

Lewis Hamilton saying all symbols of slavery should be removed when he was sporting a Mercedes badge was simply a classic own goal. He obviously doesn't know the history of Mercedes and the fact that they used mass slave labour during the Nazi regime to build their vehicles. If he honestly feels that way about slavery he should resign immediately from the Mercedes team and refuse to ever wear any of their symbols, what a hypocrite.

The one out of Little Mix complaining she feels she is the least liked out of the group because she is black, seemed to be nothing more than good sympathy vote scoring. And wasn't it a different Little Mix singer last year saying she was the least liked because she was fat. So which one is it?

If Raheem Sterling now doesn't go into coaching and management after his playing career ends what message is that giving, he has pretty much forced himself to do it now even if he doesn't feel like and instead live a comfortable life with all the mega millions he has earned.

There is absolutely no balanced debate or reasoning at the moment, and people are scared to give any alternative suggestion against BLM in case it sticks and they are branded racist for the rest of their lives even if they generally agree with the BLM principles just not necessarily how it is being put into practice.

I have seen pictures of a white policeman being attacked by a group of black people (Others trying to intervene) in London tonight.
This coming so near to Brexit and with Covid 19 there are going to be some very major problems in this country very soon.

AbsoluteZero said:

The way this is going it is going to turn out more divisive in this country than good as more and more Britons start to object to the elimination of a thousand years of British history.

Lewis Hamilton saying all symbols of slavery should be removed when he was sporting a Mercedes badge was simply a classic own goal. He obviously doesn't know the history of Mercedes and the fact that they used mass slave labour during the Nazi regime to build their vehicles. If he honestly feels that way about slavery he should resign immediately from the Mercedes team and refuse to ever wear any of their symbols, what a hypocrite.

The one out of Little Mix complaining she feels she is the least liked out of the group because she is black, seemed to be nothing more than good sympathy vote scoring. And wasn't it a different Little Mix singer last year saying she was the least liked because she was fat. So which one is it?

If Raheem Sterling now doesn't go into coaching and management after his playing career ends what message is that giving, he has pretty much forced himself to do it now even if he doesn't feel like and instead live a comfortable life with all the mega millions he has earned.

There is absolutely no balanced debate or reasoning at the moment, and people are scared to give any alternative suggestion against BLM in case it sticks and they are branded racist for the rest of their lives even if they generally agree with the BLM principles just not necessarily how it is being put into practice.

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I actually can't get over that Hamilton article. It's astonishing a. that he said what he said without recognising the irony of his position as a Mercedes driver, b. that relatively few people, if anybody has picked him up on the irony of his statement, and c. that the BBC used a picture of him with the Mercedes logo literally on his forehead as the headline picture within the article.

Again no mention of Mercedes' incredibly dodgy history within the article despite the fact that they definitely would bring up comparatively minor discretions in any articles about PewDiePie or other non-woke celebrities.

The double standards and the failure to present this issue as a debate, but instead as a statement of fact, is certainly not going to get this cause as far as it deserves to get.

I'll be honest, I had no idea about the dubious history of Mercedes.

m said:

I'll be honest, I had no idea about the dubious history of Mercedes.

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I think you'll find that any German enterprise operating back in the early 40's will have a 'dark chapter' in it's history. I'm not sure objecting to collaborating with the wishes of the Nazi party was really an option.

Not sure how working for a German employer discounts your opinion on BLM topics - especially if you are black!

The Nazis were in power in Germany from 1933 to 1945. 12 years of regime which began looting robbing some of its own chitizens decided y ethnicity and ended in war and genocide.

As has been pointed out most German companies like Mercedes were involved in the crime of the German government. Many benefited from slave labour. Others profited from the way the Jewish businesses were stolen.


But there has been an increase in readiness by those companies to come clean about their involvement with the Nazi terror. Some have paid compensation, Others have told the story of the way that their business became corrupted so that German children growing up know the truth about what happened.

The Difference in this country is that the people who are compensated were not slaves but the slave owners. British taxpayers only finished paying off the loan the government took out so we could compensate thr slaveowners (the family of David Cameron for example) For the loss of their property- their slaves- in 2015.

Slavery created enormous wealth for many people in Britain. In Oxford All Souls College beautiful library build donated by Mr Codrington who made fortunes for slaves in the West Indies.

Equally many people knew it was wrong at the time. People campaigning against it. People denounced it. That’s why after a long political battle it was banned.

The hymn Amazing Grace was written by a former captain on a slave ship he suddenly realised the terrible things that he was doing. That’s what he meant byThat’s what he meant by“ I once was Lost but now I’m found was blind but now I see”

I don’t think it’s suprising that the descendants of those who were forcibly taken by a British ship from Africa to the West Indies where they were forced to work in the sugarcane fields for nothing, And undergoing tremendous cruelty should get angry when they see that the people responsible for taking their forefathers there are still honoured on the streets and towns of this country.

It is British history. And we should start by telling the truth about it.

I think parts of this thread are interesting. Having lived in Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia, all countries previously under British rule, some of the stories and experiences I have heard are quite interesting.

Some of these include;
Yes the British were very stuck up, thought they were superior to everyone else.
They did take advantage of the population in a lot of instances

But;
We built a lot of good things in those countries which they now benefitting from including, Infrastructure, roads, railways, buildings, etc etc
And there was a sense of order, structure, hierarchy and respect. I have heard that a lot from Indians, Malaysians, Honkeys and people in Singapore. They preferred it in a way compared to today (although Singapore has done pretty well under predominately Singaporean/Chinese rule)

HKYellow said:

I think parts of this thread are interesting. Having lived in Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia, all countries previously under British rule, some of the stories and experiences I have heard are quite interesting.

Some of these include;
Yes the British were very stuck up, thought they were superior to everyone else.
They did take advantage of the population in a lot of instances

But;
We built a lot of good things in those countries which they not benefit from now. Infrastructure, roads, railways, buildings, etc etc
And there was a sense of order, structure, hierarchy and respect. I have heard that a lot from Indians, Malaysians, Honkeys and people in Singapore. They preferred it in a way compared to today (although Singapore has done pretty well under predominately Singaporean/Chinese rule)

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Yes but apart from that what did the British ever do for them?