Potential New Ground

Status
Not open for further replies.
When you consider how quick Niall is to pull up Karl for being too involved with other matters then Niall would have had to have some indication that something was imminent or he would be very unprofessional to state a deadline of May..I don't buy the being too hasty bit as major developments that affect the long term status of the club are not something to mention on a whim

The current custodian holds all the aces and the longer it gets to the lease expiring the stronger his hand becomes, it is not long ago that uncle firoz was after us for unpaid bills and i cannot believe that he has suddenly mellowed and become a weaker businessman ..The biggest issue is on one side we have someone who shafted us big time and on the other some apparent wealthy guys who have never for a moment advised what their long term plan is and only a month ago chose to sell 2 of our assets at a time when there was a real feel good factor back and the chance to progress to a higher league was staring us all in the face.
 
yellowbow said:
This is where I get confused. Is it definitely a case of FK refusing to sell? I though a price had been agreed of £13M but the sticking point is that the stadium isn’t considered to be worth that?

I’m beginning to wonder if people who are assuming that there’s some huge master plan involving a hoard of billionaires and land deals etc are way off the mark. Listening to Tiger on the 5 min thing, there’s no denying his passion and enthusiasm for owning a football club but just maybe that’s where it all ends. Him and Zaki trying their best with limited funds. We still don’t hear very much from any of the so called mega-wealthy people.

Maybe the strategy is to pick up good young talent and, with a good manager with the enthusiasm to develop them, sell them for a good profit, then plough the money back in and hopefully also get a better lease agreement in place with Firoz.

Then, just maybe, we can have a tip at the championship.
Click to expand...
Going over old ground here. £13M was the price back in 2006 when Merry / Lenagan bought the club but not the ground. Lenagan said a few years later he thought £13M was a fair price based on £10M for the building and £3M for the revenues from the stadium / conference (5x 600K profit per year).

Nearly everyone from Lenagan, Eales, Methven, Donald etc has though worked out that it would cost significantly more to pay off a mortgage for that amount each year than it costs to pay the licence fee (not rent because we only get permission to use parts of the stadium at certain times).

What has changed since 2006 is that we are 13 years down the line. I think the licence fee goes up (by inflation or a minimum %?) each year and possibly for promotions to higher leagues as well. And the City and County Councils are desperate to build new houses, and the Grenoble Road site is within the ring road and so in the City Council boundary.
 
Selling land in Kidlington to Kas. He gets his housing development we get the ground or maybe the site
Does that work and just maybe a little bit of fact
 
Manorlounger said:
Buying the existing stadium makes no sense. It is a money pit and largely unfit for purpose. It requires substantial investment with absolutely no return in sight. How many investors do folk imagine are out there willing to throw their money away?
Click to expand...

In what way is it not ‘fit for purpose’? So far as I can see it gets around 30 matches on per season , is all seated and undercover and in compliance with football league ground requirements for L1.

Sometimes the pitch gets a bit muddy by the south stand but there are far worse out there.

Do you have obstructed views ? Or uncovered ? Or lack of transport links ?
 
Manorlounger said:
Buying the existing stadium makes no sense. It is a money pit and largely unfit for purpose. It requires substantial investment with absolutely no return in sight. How many investors do folk imagine are out there willing to throw their money away?
Click to expand...

Building a new ground would need the same and be another money pit.
 
MarkG said:
In what way is it not ‘fit for purpose’? So far as I can see it gets around 30 matches on per season , is all seated and undercover and in compliance with football league ground requirements for L1.

Sometimes the pitch gets a bit muddy by the south stand but there are far worse out there.

Do you have obstructed views ? Or uncovered ? Or lack of transport links ?
Click to expand...
Wasn't thinking of the football side of things exclusively. The conference and catering facilities are well below modern standards and to make a real return would need updating by some extent. The general facilities around the ground are dated and in need of more than just a facelift. Particularly, I'm informed, the facilities in the East and North stands are not very pleasant. (Toilets in particular)
In order to really attract the good people of Oxfordshire, the stadium needs to be comfortable and amenable towards all. Granted, most football supporters are accustomed to being treated like cattle (and react accordingly) but, should we accept that or expect better for our money? The pitch suffers every season from poor access to sunshine and although the drainage is good, it could be better. If this club is to realise ambitions of Championship and even Premiership football, then improvements all round are required. The very minimum would be a fourth stand, and that wouldn't come cheap. The pitch would need to withstand the usage for a complete season not just about make it through.
For the stadium to make real money it needs to be able to host events other than football and that would require a total modernisation of the existing buildings and access.
Transport will improve with new rail links proposed, the car parking is, for a football ground, pretty good and the traffic management has improved.
Yes, granted, there are far worse stadia out there but it is this stadium that is the issue.
For me, the solution is a new build, custom designed with multi functionality and maximum use built in to that design.
 
Essexyellows said:
Building a new ground would need the same and be another money pit.
Click to expand...
Not if part of a proper development with multi use and the possibility of a decent return on that multi usage. Think conference, hotel, restaurant, concerts, exhibitions, shops. Something that would just not work at Grenoble Road.
 
Manorlounger said:
Wasn't thinking of the football side of things exclusively. The conference and catering facilities are well below modern standards and to make a real return would need updating by some extent. The general facilities around the ground are dated and in need of more than just a facelift. Particularly, I'm informed, the facilities in the East and North stands are not very pleasant. (Toilets in particular)
In order to really attract the good people of Oxfordshire, the stadium needs to be comfortable and amenable towards all. Granted, most football supporters are accustomed to being treated like cattle (and react accordingly) but, should we accept that or expect better for our money? The pitch suffers every season from poor access to sunshine and although the drainage is good, it could be better. If this club is to realise ambitions of Championship and even Premiership football, then improvements all round are required. The very minimum would be a fourth stand, and that wouldn't come cheap. The pitch would need to withstand the usage for a complete season not just about make it through.
For the stadium to make real money it needs to be able to host events other than football and that would require a total modernisation of the existing buildings and access.
Transport will improve with new rail links proposed, the car parking is, for a football ground, pretty good and the traffic management has improved.
Yes, granted, there are far worse stadia out there but it is this stadium that is the issue.
For me, the solution is a new build, custom designed with multi functionality and maximum use built in to that design.
Click to expand...
Agree, what it would cost to refurbish the breeze block to a decent standard would require some serious money being spent on it, which maybe would be better spent/invested in a brand new stadium elsewhere?
 
Manorlounger said:
Not if part of a proper development with multi use and the possibility of a decent return on that multi usage. Think conference, hotel, restaurant, concerts, exhibitions, shops. Something that would just not work at Grenoble Road.
Click to expand...

Who has the debt on this multi complex? how long will it take to repay any loan? What do the football club get out of this deal?
Nobody is just going to gift us a stadium so it has to be paid for and by whom?
in the absence of a plan now going forward, how do we know that once such complex and return is starting to be realized and prior to this will they take care of the playing side of things and how do we know that the custodian/s will not just walk away? in particular if this is their real aim?.
is this yet another case of not what can be done for Oxford United but what Oxford United can do for them?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well that was always going to be the way. Tiger might well love football and love owning an English club - in fact I don't think there is much doubt about that. But let's not fool ourselves into imagining that many of the 'silent' directors are involved for the same reasons. They are property investors. The ONLY way they are going to invest in any sort of scheme (buying Grenoble Road, buying the whole 'Kassam'/Ozone development or building something new) is if they are going to make money. The club is the way in for them - not the reason for doing it. That's not to say the club might not benefit mind you.
 
ZeroTheHero said:
Well that was always going to be the way. Tiger might well love football and love owning an English club - in fact I don't think there is much doubt about that. But let's not fool ourselves into imagining that many of the 'silent' directors are involved for the same reasons. They are property investors. The ONLY way they are going to invest in any sort of scheme (buying Grenoble Road, buying the whole 'Kassam'/Ozone development or building something new) is if they are going to make money. The club is the way in for them - not the reason for doing it. That's not to say the club might not benefit mind you.
Click to expand...

from the club point of view i just don't see any more income potential than owning where we are..now if we were to get a % on retail sales that's another matter but that seems a no goer
 
But (as I said) you have to not think of it from the 'club' point of view. Let's take a wild punt and imagine that the 'new stadium with shops, restaurants, conference/meeting rooms, offices and community sport facilities around it' is a goer. The investors find and buy some land and build it. They have to make their money back. To do so, they have the rent from the retail premises, the money from the conference/office facilities, money from alternative uses of the stadium (concerts etc), money for stadium/stand naming rights plus maybe a bit from organisations using the community sports facilities. Now IF they could square that circle, you could possibly see the 'club' not having to pay a huge (or any) rent for the stadium, having lower maintenance charges, keeping the match day catering profits and benefiting from pitchside advertising. That in itself would be a HUGE step forward.

Sounds simple when you say it quickly and don't have to find the money or take the risks yourself of course!
 
ZeroTheHero said:
Well that was always going to be the way. Tiger might well love football and love owning an English club - in fact I don't think there is much doubt about that. But let's not fool ourselves into imagining that many of the 'silent' directors are involved for the same reasons. They are property investors. The ONLY way they are going to invest in any sort of scheme (buying Grenoble Road, buying the whole 'Kassam'/Ozone development or building something new) is if they are going to make money. The club is the way in for them - not the reason for doing it. That's not to say the club might not benefit mind you.
Click to expand...
But are these silent directors, hovering on the periphery, actually significant investors? What evidence do we have that they are about to pump millions into a project in the near future? The extent of their involvement is still very murky. It didnt take long for Thohir to drift away.
 
yellowbow said:
But are these silent directors, hovering on the periphery, actually significant investors? What evidence do we have that they are about to pump millions into a project in the near future? The extent of their involvement is still very murky. It didnt take long for Thohir to drift away.
Click to expand...
We don't have any evidence, of course we don't. We don't know what their intentions are but, we don't know that they don't have some intent. To speculate about the direction the board is going to take is pointless.

My thoughts are based purely on what I see as a viable process of investement and development. I do not see the Kassam Stadium as a viable site for any meaningful return.
If some kindly benefactor pops up with £30 million and hands it over to OUFC, fine. That ain't going to happen.
Thohir didn't drift away, he entered politics in his own country, doesn't mean he won't be available to finance, partly or wholly, a development in this country which could make him a profit.
 
yellowbow said:
But are these silent directors, hovering on the periphery, actually significant investors? What evidence do we have that they are about to pump millions into a project in the near future? The extent of their involvement is still very murky. It didnt take long for Thohir to drift away.
Click to expand...
Not strictly true. Thohir went off to join the International Olympic Committee and drive sport in Indonesia and the far east. He dropped his directors position at Oxford, but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't be involved in any future projects.

I don't think anyone has tried to hide the fact that other board members have the experience and interest in real estate, and their investment would likely be held for any stadium deal. So until we have a deal agreed, or proof that it's no longer on the table, then it's hard to judge their involvement either way.

Under FFP rules, investment needs to be self generated, so Oxford could have £1billion in the bank and still need to sell players to reinvest.

And as @ZeroTheHero has outlined, there is a relatively clear way that a new build can work for all involved. Action maybe speaks louder than words, so I won't go round and round with the same lines, but I'm not so sure that we're not far away from having a clearer idea of the plans of the whole board.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

bicesterox
General Training ground development
Replies
5
Views
561
MJB
MJB
Oslernorth
The Manor Grounds old seats used in new football ground in Leamington?
Replies
6
Views
2K
Older Shotts
Older Shotts
MarkG
General Manor ground model
Replies
10
Views
3K
Wallop
W
Ox4Eva
Ground signs
Replies
0
Views
2K
Ox4Eva
Ox4Eva
WokinghamYellow
Considering moving to Non League ground
11 12 13
Replies
259
Views
51K
Essexyellows
Essexyellows
Back
Top Bottom