National News ITV leaders debate: Johnson v Corbyn - who won?

Who won the ITV leaders debate?

  • Johnson

    Votes: 11 22.4%

  • Corbyn

    Votes: 22 44.9%

  • No one

    Votes: 16 32.7%
  • Total voters
    49
Round 2 was pretty revealing

Corbyn - looking more assured and has put a fairly reasonable position forwards on Brexit. Portrayed himself as the adult in the room and largely managed it.
Sturgeon - spoke well and dismissed
the tories out of hand. Seems to think that she’ll hold the balance of power if labour get close. But that’s only if labour get close. And she’ll have to negotiate.
Swinson - our of her depth and she knows it. Was like watching a sixth former. The liberals are going down in flames and she knows it.
Johnson - looked nervous and was clearly rattled. Refused to apologise for some of his language in previous newspaper articles and was roundly derided at times by the audience.

Interesting week coming up. Corbyn’s position of neutrality on brexit is going to be important. The tories need to find a way to undermine it without publicising that it’s probably the only correct stance of a prime minister of the whole country. Johnson seems to be on the defensive and the issues with Russian involvement, that American bird, his ill considered language in his columns and the Tory approach to social media are not going to go away. That, combined with the Spector of a Labour/SNP ‘understanding’ of some kind, makes the next couple of weeks start to look pretty fruity!
 
As somebody who actively dislikes every damn one of them:

Corbyn: Performed the best. Took a bit of stick over a couple of issues but rode it out and spoke quite confidently and calmly. Don’t like his politics and would be worried if he got the keys, but he did pretty well.

Sturgeon: God she’s awful. Such a bigot whose hypocrisy never fails to astound me. Potentially holds the balance of power and boy, does she know it. Performed okay but I can’t stand her, and the sooner we see the back of her the better IMO.

Swinson: Well, that was a complete car crash. Actually, more like a car crash that then had a helicopter crash into it. Couldn’t answer anything convincingly and appeared totally unfit to be anywhere near top level politics. The Lib Dem resurgence took one hell of a beating tonight.

Johnson: State of him. Quite surprised by just how much flack he took, facing a lot of angry questioning and being roundly booed and jeered repeatedly. Was pleasing to see him look actively rocked on occasion and reassuring that there are still people out there who have him rumbled, even if he’s likely going to win and possibly get a small majority to boot.

I won’t be voting for any of them, mind, but it was intriguing to see at times none the less.
 
Corbyn will lose and he looked more relaxed than I’ve seen him. even if he won the majority would not allow him to pass through what he wants. A change of leader would follow.
sturgeon should be asked, who should run Scotland, the EU or the U.K.
Swinson is out of her depth, but no doubt many remainers will vote for her. Many consider her the non respecter of democracy given she wants to repeal A50
A shame WASPI could not get their case over the retirement age.
Personally I thought none of them looked the part
 
RyanioBirdio said:
Swinson: Well, that was a complete car crash. Actually, more like a car crash that then had a helicopter crash into it. Couldn’t answer anything convincingly and appeared totally unfit to be anywhere near top level politics. The Lib Dem resurgence took one hell of a beating tonight.
Click to expand...

swinson.png

Thieved from Private Eye.
 
Sarge said:
round two tonight BBC 7PM QT leaders special (for 2 hours)

is there a sweepstake on how many times the fat blond posh boy, sporting flaming underwear, will say 'get Brexit done'?

double figures at least Id reckon
Click to expand...

only 4 times
 
They say this election is all about Brexit - I voted leave after doing hours of research and it was a close call. My main gripe was that the EU - despite being an organisation that had kept us from war for over 75 years - needed a huge shake up. As a trading block it is losing ground to the Far East and seemed to be weakening itself even further by introducing more countries who were anything but fiscally sound. I truly hoped that the UK could and would be able to form trading relationships with other partners and strengthen, whilst I fully expected the EU to slowly start to disintegrate. Germany as been printing Deutche Marks for years, in case of this scenario. It is clear that the idealisms of Brexiteer politicians though were just wishful thinking - the divorce deal cost double what we thought and it simply is not possible to walk away and cut all ties without damaging the UK economy. Brexit was sold on misinformation - 3 years later I am not convinced that the public is ready for a referendum because there have been so many sound bytes and so much misinformation since the vote that we still don't know what is best for the country. I have no confidence at all in the Tories to be able to forge new deals with other nations and simply replace the importers of our goods (EU) with new trading partners - they havent done enough and we are not ready to leave. I am disgusted that they have also brought in popularist right wing policies on immigration - my wife is a Finn and the way EU citizens are proposed to be treated is disgraceful. The Australian points system proposed is ludicrous in areas such as Cornwall (and regions which need migrant work such as our agricultural heartlands) as these regions suffer huge levels of poverty and 90% of the Brits living there wouldn't qualify given the average salaries. The deal with the U.S would open the door to US pharmas having full access to the UK health market and drain £27bn per year from the NHS - this is the reality versus a promised £530m per week cash injection.

So whether you supported Brexit or not, I think anyone who reassesses the situation now, given the atrocious way it has been handled, and consider the calibre of the leaders we have in place to deliver it (and the crippling "costs" of doing so), has to reassess whether we would be better trying to reform the EU from within. I for one have changed my mind.

So why are ardent Brexit supporters still refusing to at least reconsider the prudence of leaving given what we now "know"? - a second referendum is pointless without prolonged TV debates which address every sector, weighing up the pros and cons and explaining the impact of Brexit/Remain. I don't think Labour need to take a position and campaign on one side - rather commit to educating the public impartially and giving them the tools to make an "informed" decision.

But I think that whatever the case for leave or remain, most leavers will not change their views because Brexit has set a precedent because of the fundamental argument of whether we are democratic or not - regardless of whether it will be good for Britain or a compete car crash. We have always believed that we live in a democracy and that the public ultimately have the power - if governments don't do as we wish, we can replace them. They are after all public servants elected to carry out our commands/mandates. The ONLY issue for many is that they havent done that, and it sets a precedent if we allow then to take control rather than to unwillingly enforce the public will. Many feel that if Brexit doesnt happen we have lost control over deciding our own destiny, The beginning of the end - where any decision put to the people can be revoked /reversed by politicians who think they know better. It is now a matter of principal, not common sense. Maybe it would be better to introduce legislation that when "instructed" to do something, by a certain date, politicians need to either deliver it or all collectively stand down - I think we would always then get them working together - not leaving, and the possibility that we never will has set a dangerous political precedent - that the will of the people may not being actioned by their representatives in parliament, even though three years later it is pretty clear we aren't ready to leave and to do so would be a car crash.
 
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FalmouthOx said:
They say this election is all about Brexit - I voted leave after doing hours of research and it was a close call. My main gripe was that the EU - despite being an organisation that had kept us from war for over 75 years - needed a huge shake up. As a trading block it is losing ground to the Far East and seemed to be weakening itself even further by introducing more countries who were anything but fiscally sound. I truly hoped that the UK could and would be able to form trading relationships with other partners and strengthen, whilst I fully expected the EU to slowly start to disintegrate. Germany as been printing Deutche Marks for years, in case of this scenario. It is clear that the idealisms of Brexiteer politicians though were just wishful thinking - the divorce deal cost double what we thought and it simply is not possible to walk away and cut all ties without damaging the UK economy. Brexit was sold on misinformation - 3 years later I am not convinced that the public is ready for a referendum because there have been so many sound bytes and so much misinformation since the vote that we still don't know what is best for the country. I have no confidence at all in the Tories to be able to forge new deals with other nations and simply replace the importers of our goods (EU) with new trading partners - they havent done enough and we are not ready to leave. I am disgusted that they have also brought in popularist right wing policies on immigration - my wife is a Finn and the way EU citizens are proposed to be treated is disgraceful. The Australian points system proposed is ludicrous in areas such as Cornwall (and regions which need migrant work such as our agricultural heartlands) as these regions suffer huge levels of poverty and 90% of the Brits living there wouldn't qualify given the average salaries. The deal with the U.S would open the door to US pharmas having full access to the UK health market and drain £27bn per year from the NHS - this is the reality versus a promised £530m per week cash injection.

So whether you supported Brexit or not, I think anyone who reassesses the situation now, given the atrocious way it has been handled, and consider the calibre of the leaders we have in place to deliver it (and the crippling "costs" of doing so), has to reassess whether we would be better trying to reform the EU from within. I for one have changed my mind.

So why are ardent Brexit supporters still refusing to at least reconsider the prudence of leaving given what we now "know"? - a second referendum is pointless without prolonged TV debates which address every sector, weighing up the pros and cons and explaining the impact of Brexit/Remain. I don't think Labour need to take a position and campaign on one side - rather commit to educating the public impartially and giving them the tools to make an "informed" decision.

But I think that whatever the case for leave or remain, most leavers will not change their views because Brexit has set a precedent because of the fundamental argument of whether we are democratic or not - regardless of whether it will be good for Britain or a compete car crash. We have always believed that we live in a democracy and that the public ultimately have the power - if governments don't do as we wish, we can replace them. They are after all public servants elected to carry out our commands/mandates. The ONLY issue for many is that they havent done that, and it sets a precedent if we allow then to take control rather than to unwillingly enforce the public will. Many feel that if Brexit doesnt happen we have lost control over deciding our own destiny, The beginning of the end - where any decision put to the people can be revoked /reversed by politicians who think they know better. It is now a matter of principal, not common sense. Maybe it would be better to introduce legislation that when "instructed" to do something, by a certain date, politicians need to either deliver it or all collectively stand down - I think we would always then get them working together - not leaving, and the possibility that we never will has set a dangerous political precedent - that the will of the people may not being actioned by their representatives in parliament, even though three years later it is pretty clear we aren't ready to leave and to do so would be a car crash.
Click to expand...
It's a hard one to answer. The personal nature of Brexit has created an environment where those in the middle- I was there in 2016 - have been forced to the extreme. It didn't need to be that way.

When we leave and are settled, I'm more than happy to vote again. Sadly, another at this time seems to be a remain stitch up and Leavers aren't stupid enough to fall into that trap. We've not gone away
 
Ive had at least 10 Libdumb leaflets/letters thru my letterbox,theyre really going for it round here.................wan-kers
 
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