HMRC?

Can`t see what all the fuss is over, compare our HMRC performance with plenty of other lower league clubs, Southend in particular who have a habit of leaving it till the last hour with little or no retribution from the football authorities.
As for paying the landlord he would be lower on the list than the HMRC........... :)
 
Can`t see what all the fuss is over, compare our HMRC performance with plenty of other lower league clubs, Southend in particular who have a habit of leaving it till the last hour with little or no retribution from the football authorities.
As for paying the landlord he would be lower on the list than the HMRC........... :)

Please don’t tell us you’re actually the Finance Director using an alias!
 
Please don’t tell us you’re actually the Finance Director using an alias!

Absolutely not. :)
However it is far from unusual for a football club to do such things, its all about perspective.
I can imagine Tiger telling the the FD "Its a bit of a mess, sort it out and let me know who,what when".
Then you have the pending new chap who probably needs lots of things signed off......... HMRC just slipped on the to do list, and HMRC don`t bother with CCJ`s or the like its straight to WU Orders, that prevents the company continuing to trade and increasing the debt to HMRC.

There will be some negotiation and movement in the background and all will be well.........at a cost.
 
Pardon my possible ignorance here but I always thought a WU order was a last resort, ie they have tried numerous times to get the money, so why has it not been paid (again), it can't just be an admin oversight (again), can it?
 
A WU order is indeed a final act, but the action we are talking about is the filing of a notice to petition the court for a winding up order to be granted. In a weeks’ time, the petition will be “published”, which means that other companies and institutions can join in the melee or take other actions as they see fit to ensure their own interests are protected - it would be some time after that before a hearing to grant a WO Order would take place and there are many ways a business can avoid this even if they are skint – CVA anybody?



In the vast majority of cases, the debt is settled before the notice is published and unless someone is looking for the notice, it never becomes public knowledge. HMRC are the most prolific users of notice, as they use it as a debt collection tool, rather than with any intent to close a business down.
 
A WU order is indeed a final act, but the action we are talking about is the filing of a notice to petition the court for a winding up order to be granted. In a weeks’ time, the petition will be “published”, which means that other companies and institutions can join in the melee or take other actions as they see fit to ensure their own interests are protected - it would be some time after that before a hearing to grant a WO Order would take place and there are many ways a business can avoid this even if they are skint – CVA anybody?



In the vast majority of cases, the debt is settled before the notice is published and unless someone is looking for the notice, it never becomes public knowledge. HMRC are the most prolific users of notice, as they use it as a debt collection tool, rather than with any intent to close a business down.
Ah ok thanks for the clarification and info.
 
A WU order is indeed a final act, but the action we are talking about is the filing of a notice to petition the court for a winding up order to be granted. In a weeks’ time, the petition will be “published”, which means that other companies and institutions can join in the melee or take other actions as they see fit to ensure their own interests are protected - it would be some time after that before a hearing to grant a WO Order would take place and there are many ways a business can avoid this even if they are skint – CVA anybody?



In the vast majority of cases, the debt is settled before the notice is published and unless someone is looking for the notice, it never becomes public knowledge. HMRC are the most prolific users of notice, as they use it as a debt collection tool, rather than with any intent to close a business down.

What i don't understand is how it went public now then? Is the only mechanism to call the court? So someone had to be calling the court daily just incase a notice was made, or someone has leaked it from the club.
 
This is cavalier, no , worse than that, extremely poor financial management, whatever the circumstances.

An advertised WUP - which is different from the current beast admittedly - leads to freezing of bank accounts. This is horrendous.
We are the next step back from that and hopefully it will be sorted but all supporters should be concerned. It is not a great advert for Tiger’s capabilities is it?

I wonder is it VAT of PAYE that is owed?

I assume the amount is significant - amounting to hundreds of thousands of pounds?

And what’s more concerning is that we are only three months after all the season ticket money has been collected in...
 
Interesting to hear it being claimed that this is only the second one.
Interesting that you think this matters? As someone with a journalistic background may be you could explain the impact this has on the day to day running of the club? Or are you jumping on the Hawks scaremongering bandwagon?!
 
This is cavalier, no , worse than that, extremely poor financial management, whatever the circumstances.

An advertised WUP - which is different from the current beast admittedly - leads to freezing of bank accounts. This is horrendous.
We are the next step back from that and hopefully it will be sorted but all supporters should be concerned. It is not a great advert for Tiger’s capabilities is it?

I wonder is it VAT of PAYE that is owed?

I assume the amount is significant - amounting to hundreds of thousands of pounds?

And what’s more concerning is that we are only three months after all the season ticket money has been collected in...
...and the un budgeted extra income from playing Man City in the League cup, in front of a full house at the breeze block. Where did that extra cash go?:unsure:
 
Interesting that you think this matters? As someone with a journalistic background may be you could explain the impact this has on the day to day running of the club?

In general, any half competently run establishment i.e. with sufficient financing, efficient administration and general good governance does not get into these situations.

I don't think for a moment that the club is in danger of going under and it is unlikely to negatively impact events on the pitch (assuming staff have been paid). Rather, it's a symptom that things are being run poorly behind the scenes.

Is it too much to expect that the VAT included in your ticket or replica shirt is handed over to the relevant authorities in a timely manner rather than being used to fund the day-to-day operations of the business (which is what the shareholders funding should be used for) ?
 
In general, any half competently run establishment i.e. with sufficient financing, efficient administration and general good governance does not get into these situations.

I don't think for a moment that the club is in danger of going under and it is unlikely to negatively impact events on the pitch (assuming staff have been paid). Rather, it's a symptom that things are being run poorly behind the scenes.

Is it too much to expect that the VAT included in your ticket or replica shirt is handed over to the relevant authorities in a timely manner rather than being used to fund the day-to-day operations of the business (which is what the shareholders funding should be used for) ?
Thanks to Oxymoron for clarification and to you for raising appropriate level of concern.
It's not disastrous and it's not confidence inspiring. It is, at least, embarrassing for the new FD.
 
In general, any half competently run establishment i.e. with sufficient financing, efficient administration and general good governance does not get into these situations.

I don't think for a moment that the club is in danger of going under and it is unlikely to negatively impact events on the pitch (assuming staff have been paid). Rather, it's a symptom that things are being run poorly behind the scenes.

Is it too much to expect that the VAT included in your ticket or replica shirt is handed over to the relevant authorities in a timely manner rather than being used to fund the day-to-day operations of the business (which is what the shareholders funding should be used for) ?

Of course it's not ideal, but it doesn't necessarily mean that there is no money or the money is being used inappropriately.
 
Of course it's not ideal, but it doesn't necessarily mean that there is no money or the money is being used inappropriately.

What does it mean then? The only other options would be administrative incompetence or negligence.
 
I think it's worth saying that the club operates at a significant annual loss without player sales and cup runs, somewhere between £1M and £2Million per year. In addition, Tiger had instalments to pay Ensco in April and September 2018, which may or may not have been funded by money coming in from past player sales. So the simple answer of using ticket income and shirt sales to pay bills doesn't really help when the bills come to more than the income.

My gut feeling is that Tiger has been waiting for Thohir to come in as an investor as well as a director in order to inject some cash. So rather than going to a payday loan company, Tiger has been waiting for this cash (or some other source of funds to arrive).

Or an alternative is that Tiger really has bitten off more than he can chew, there isn't enough money coming in to pay the bills, and the club really is up s**t creek.

The investors who might have been waiting to pick up the club on the cheap are now solidly stuck into Sunderland, and I can't see them dropping out of that project. In addition their plan seemed to have Water Eaton as a key part of it to make it financially viable which Bob Price later shot down.
 
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