Getting the crowds back in

[guyellow]

I would love to see the financial projections for phased return of crowds vs no crowds at OUFC. I would anticipate that for the vast majority of the season the club anticipated that the crowd would be made up solely of season ticket holders in order to maintain social distancing. These tickets have already been paid for.
We get no revenue from refreshments, and they were not going to be opening for the foreseeable future anyway.
So I'm not sure where the loss of cash revenue comes from following last night's announcement. Yet on the other hand there will be no security staff etc to pay. Clearly hard times ahead, but I would be surprised if they are any projected as worse than they would have been 24 hours ago.
For a club like ours we rely on the strategic involvement, good will and deep pockets of the board. The impact of Covid-19 on these latter points may be what makes or breaks us.

 

[West Oxon U’s]

The Sunderland game may have seen a gate of 10,000 so around six thousand paying customers at, say, £15 per head i.e £90,000
(as 4,000 season ticket holders have already paid).

We may have got 500 match day passes from Sunderland fans watching via ifollow and say 1,000 U's fans buying a match day pass
Remember Sunderland would bank the revenue from ifollow subscribers watching via their website streaming service, except for the first 500.

So £15,000 of revenue from ifollow passes against matchday revenue of say £90k ( just as an example ). I know there are some costs involved.

It's crippling.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

The Sunderland game may have seen a gate of 10,000 so around six thousand paying customers at, say, £15 per head i.e £90,000
(as 4,000 season ticket holders have already paid).

We may have got 500 match day passes from Sunderland fans watching via ifollow and say 1,000 U's fans buying a match day pass
Remember Sunderland would bank the revenue from ifollow subscribers watching via their website streaming service, except for the first 500.

So £15,000 of revenue from ifollow passes against matchday revenue of say £90k ( just as an example ). I know there are some costs involved.

It's crippling.

You are entirely right, but that wasn't his point.

He was comparing no crowds against a socially distanced crowd of prepaid ST holders (which is what the crowds would likely be for this whole season). And in that case, yes I am sure it is much cheaper to have nobody in there. Crapper, but cheaper.

 

[ThatSlopesATwelfthMan]

The Sunderland game may have seen a gate of 10,000 so around six thousand paying customers at, say, £15 per head i.e £90,000
(as 4,000 season ticket holders have already paid).

We may have got 500 match day passes from Sunderland fans watching via ifollow and say 1,000 U's fans buying a match day pass
Remember Sunderland would bank the revenue from ifollow subscribers watching via their website streaming service, except for the first 500.

So £15,000 of revenue from ifollow passes against matchday revenue of say £90k ( just as an example ). I know there are some costs involved.

It's crippling.

That's true but not really affected by yesterday's announcements. Everyone has known for months that large numbers of pay-on-the day or any away fans being in stadiums this season very unlikely. Season ticket money already banked. Looks to me like clubs using the latest news to start a more concerted lobby for bailouts.

 

[ttg17]

I would love to see the financial projections for phased return of crowds vs no crowds at OUFC. I would anticipate that for the vast majority of the season the club anticipated that the crowd would be made up solely of season ticket holders in order to maintain social distancing. These tickets have already been paid for.
We get no revenue from refreshments, and they were not going to be opening for the foreseeable future anyway.
So I'm not sure where the loss of cash revenue comes from following last night's announcement. Yet on the other hand there will be no security staff etc to pay. Clearly hard times ahead, but I would be surprised if they are any projected as worse than they would have been 24 hours ago.
For a club like ours we rely on the strategic involvement, good will and deep pockets of the board. The impact of Covid-19 on these latter points may be what makes or breaks us.

I agree, but I presume the hope was that the reintroduction of ST holders in socially distanced bubbles would gradually give way to selling match tickets and then more or less back-to-normal, full stadiums by Christmas or the New Year. I suppose clubs, including us, weren't really legislating for a full season of BCD football, which is what it now appears is likely to be the reality.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

I agree, but I presume the hope was that the reintroduction of ST holders in socially distanced bubbles would gradually give way to selling match tickets and then more or less back-to-normal, full stadiums by Christmas or the New Year.

I think that would have been hugely optimistic, given the numerous predictions of a second wave and the known increase in respiratory infections in the winter. I think a universally administered vaccine is the only way that could have happened, and (despite some very bullish predictions a few months ago) that was always unlikely to happen so quickly. I just hope the club have - so far as possible - hoped for the best but planned for the worst.

 

[m]

Can’t remember where I saw it mentioned but I’m sure all PL clubs can comfortably survive without fans in the stadiums as the tv revenue is worth that much to them. That’s why Bournemouth weren’t overly concerned about their stadium being only around 11k.

Yeah, I can't remember my source either, but I've definitely read that attendance revenues are pretty insignificant compared to other revenues for PL teams.

 

[Marked Ox]

Can’t remember where I saw it mentioned but I’m sure all PL clubs can comfortably survive without fans in the stadiums as the tv revenue is worth that much to them. That’s why Bournemouth weren’t overly concerned about their stadium being only around 11k.

It is suggested in an article I read that the PL lost a £500m TV contract in China because the company wanted a significant discount for there being no crowd in the grounds.

 

[holdsteady]

Sean Dyche made a point about the Premier "helping out".

"Why should successful businesses bail out the less successful?"is what he said in a nutshell.

Bet he wouldn`t have said it if Burnley were in League 2..............

Some one should point out to him that under that reasoning Burnley should get about £50 from the tv rights deal, as no one tunes in to watch Burnley.

 

[ttg17]

I think that would have been hugely optimistic, given the numerous predictions of a second wave and the known increase in respiratory infections in the winter. I think a universally administered vaccine is the only way that could have happened, and (despite some very bullish predictions a few months ago) that was always unlikely to happen so quickly. I just hope the club have - so far as possible - hoped for the best but planned for the worst.

Yeah no doubt. At the point when clubs would have been making contingency plans, though, in April/May, I don't think anyone really thought we wouldn't be seeing fans in stadiums again properly for another full season at least. Accrington's chairman Andy Holt on Twitter has been pretty open about how they have budgeted to survive the summer lockdown and start to the season without fans, and I don't think he was counting on not having fans in stadiums all season. Also, and without wishing to turn this into a government-bashing, us-v-them thread, other countries, who have managed the virus more effectively, are seeing fans return in pretty big numbers. There were 10,000 at Dortmund v Munchengladbach this weekend. So it's perhaps not unreasonable that, back then, clubs would have expected not to have to go a full season without fans.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

I don't think anyone really thought we wouldn't be seeing fans in stadiums again properly for another full season at least.

A few did.

 

[unification]

Yeah, I can't remember my source either, but I've definitely read that attendance revenues are pretty insignificant compared to other revenues for PL teams.

I think I’ve heard similar too. From memory, it coincided with the Twenty’s Plenty campaign from the FSF and the £5bn over three years PL TV rights deal in 2015. I think a representative made the point that the PL could run a season where they let fans in for free for every match and they’d still be better off than the season previous due to the riches from the latest deal. I certainly had that on BBC Breakfast/Today programme at the time. If anyone has the exact quote, it would be good to have it for reference again.

Sean Dyche made a point about the Premier "helping out".

"Why should successful businesses bail out the less successful?"is what he said in a nutshell.

Bet he wouldn`t have said it if Burnley were in League 2..............

For a player who spent most of his career in the third tier, that’s a remarkable lack of humility from him.

Whilst I don’t expect handouts season after season from the PL, for the betterment of the game having the lower leagues exist is beneficial to the PL. Burnley this season already have four players loaned out to EFL/NL clubs.

 

[Kamal]

Personally I can't see how clubs being allowed ST holders in the ground brings in revenue. We've already paid the club and are getting something in return. The concourses won't even be open apart from toilet facilities. All catering will be outside. Is that run/does that money go to the club?

The club really wants to target the non ST holders, the ones who will be paying 20 quid each match day to bring in extra revenue. Unfortunately they won't be allowed in whilst the stadium is at reduced capacity due to social distancing. And social distancing will only cease to exist when a vaccine is available. Sadly I can see it being 2022 until we get to any sort of normality.

I long await the day when 2000 Ox travel to some Northern s**t town to stand in a garden shed and support our team. The limbs when a goal goes in. The singing of songs. Everyone belting out Yellow Submarine. That could all be years away..

 

[ZeroTheHero]

It is suggested in an article I read that the PL lost a £500m TV contract in China because the company wanted a significant discount for there being no crowd in the grounds.

I think they have now signed a replacement deal with a different Chinese company.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

There were 10,000 at Dortmund v Munchengladbach this weekend. So it's perhaps not unreasonable that, back then, clubs would have expected not to have to go a full season without fans.

Yes, seeing articles about that made me pretty jealous. I think we will have to wait and see what happens to the infection rates in those places before we can tell whether it is a good idea or not though!

 

[Marked Ox]

I think they have now signed a replacement deal with a different Chinese company.

Not surprised but I think this does demonstrate how TV companies may now see how important crowds in the stadium are which may translate across to the clubs. I expect long term safe standing singing areas in all PL grounds to become the norm to create atmosphere. My point though doesn't really change the overall point that PL clubs could survive financially without crowds in the short term. In the long term it might be different though.

 

[bazzer9461]

I tend to agree, I wonder if the Premier League might find a fund to assist the lower leagues instead.

The equivalent of a couple of transfer fees could be enough to tide over the 48 L1 and L2 clubs for a season. What strings that payment would come with however.........

I doubt it, it would be nice but clubs in the premiership would argue that they can’t because they have to pay the wages of their highly paid stars and then their over heads they might have a fiver to throw at us grass root clubs. They don’t give a s**t about grass root clubs

 

[bazzer9461]

I am not sure. From what I have seen, stupid transfer fees are still being paid and clubs (including ours) are paying high wages. So I feel clubs have done very little to rein their costs in.

There is still a problem with communication and education of the public. But its not only the UK, here in Malaysia they are due to finish a 6 month moratorium on loan repayments (home loan, ie mortgage, car, business loans etc). And people don't have the means to start repaying, but worryingly the public thought it meant the government were paying the installments, not that they were deferred.

I still think the economic impact both in the UK and globally has barely started and the general public are still spending like nothing is happening.

What stupid fees have our club paid?

 

[ThatSlopesATwelfthMan]

I agree, but I presume the hope was that the reintroduction of ST holders in socially distanced bubbles would gradually give way to selling match tickets and then more or less back-to-normal, full stadiums by Christmas or the New Year. I suppose clubs, including us, weren't really legislating for a full season of BCD football, which is what it now appears is likely to be the reality.

If any football club has been modelling finances based on full stadiums this season, let alone by xmas they are insane. At work our events unit has been scenario and finance planning since mid March with the 'back to normal' scenario considered so unlikely it wasn't even fully worked up. And that's for events with much simpler logistics and risk management than football. As an ST holder I'd consider it a bonus to see any live football this season.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Not surprised but I think this does demonstrate how TV companies may now see how important crowds in the stadium are which may translate across to the clubs.

I hope so. If there is one thing this has proved it is that a spectator sport without live spectators is a sorry thing.

The IPL cricket has just started. Normally it is played in packed, noisy stadiums and is worth watching. This year it's being played out of India behind closed doors and frankly is as dull as ditch water - yes the ball is still being clouted about, but without the crowds there is very little excitement. I have found the same with the televised football - even the games with multiple cameras, fake crowd noise, banners on the seats etc are just missing the vital ingredient that made them worth watching.