International News Trump impeached

It's not going well for the Democrats. They've managed to rush and then botch the impeachment of Trump (well done Adam Schiff ?) and the new app they introduced for the Iowa caucus count has proved difficult to use and the results still aren't out.

Round of applause for the Democrats for somehow making Trump's WH look organised and functional. Mission Impossible somehow turning into Mission Achieved, and some wonderful fodder for Trump in the election at the end of the year. Truly incompetent - did they steal all the worst bit from the Labour party?

Some theories are they are cooking the Iowa books again to get Sanders off of the win like they did in 2016!
 
It's not going well for the Democrats. They've managed to rush and then botch the impeachment of Trump (well done Adam Schiff [emoji122]) and the new app they introduced for the Iowa caucus count has proved difficult to use and the results still aren't out.

Round of applause for the Democrats for somehow making Trump's WH look organised and functional. Mission Impossible somehow turning into Mission Achieved, and some wonderful fodder for Trump in the election at the end of the year. Truly incompetent - did they steal all the worst bit from the Labour party?

Some theories are they are cooking the Iowa books again to get Sanders off of the win like they did in 2016!

The Democratic Party is a disgrace.
They will do whatever it takes to stop Sanders just like last time.
They have no interest in beating trump with a progressive ticket, they keep wheeling out these corporate establishment dinosaurs like Clinton and Biden.

Pisses me off, a Sanders/Gabbard ticket would clobber trump but the dem party has no interest in running them.
 
The Democratic Party is a disgrace.
They will do whatever it takes to stop Sanders just like last time.
They have no interest in beating trump with a progressive ticket, they keep wheeling out these corporate establishment dinosaurs like Clinton and Biden.

Pisses me off, a Sanders/Gabbard ticket would clobber trump but the dem party has no interest in running them.
Agree. Sanders, for his imperfections, will be a hard candidate for Trump to go against- for one, he doesn't care so Trump's jabs won't hurt as much, if at all. He'll also have big rallies too that won't look like Clinton's ones.

But... But yeah, looks like Biden or Warren for the party choice
 
State of the Union address kind of defined the conflict. ? ?

He`s going to walk it.
Trump petulantly refusing a handshake..... countered by that snubbed woman tearing up a transcript of his state of the union speech (on a rostrum, behind the Orange one's back).... amazingly American politics is even more infantile than UK politics, currently IMO :rolleyes:
 
Trump petulantly refusing a handshake..... countered by that snubbed woman tearing up a transcript of his state of the union speech (on a rostrum, behind the Orange one's back).... amazingly American politics is even more infantile than UK politics, currently IMO :rolleyes:
I believe it started when Pelosi didn't announce him correctly - it should have been something like it's my distinct/distinguished honour to.... - and she didn't.

In all honesty, childish and petulant from all involved. It did briefly show the deep hatred that Pelosi has for Trump that she has claimed she doesn't have. I suppose it was a perfect viral moment for Reps and Dems alike!
 
The Republicans are getting all hissy because Pelosi ripped up his speech, but Trump extorting foreign leaders for dirt on his political opponents is ok with them.
 
The Republicans are getting all hissy because Pelosi ripped up his speech, but Trump extorting foreign leaders for dirt on his political opponents is ok with them.
At present, there is no proof of that. A lot of he said, she said, I heard, no correlating proof - the Dems sadly for them, messed it all up and rushed it! Will we ever find proof?

I'd love to know what Eric Ciamarella thinks, but Schiff didn't call him as a witness
 
At present, there is no proof of that. A lot of he said, she said, I heard, no correlating proof - the Dems sadly for them, messed it all up and rushed it! Will we ever find proof?

I'd love to know what Eric Ciamarella thinks, but Schiff didn't call him as a witness

I think this is incorrect - almost noone is now denying that it happened. That Trump made investigation of Biden's son a condition of releasing military aide.

This is the statement that Republican senator Lamar Alexander made, with which a large number of his senate colleagues have concurred, as to why he didn't want to extend the impeachment trial:

“I worked with other senators to make sure that we have the right to ask for more documents and witnesses, but there is no need for more evidence to prove something that has already been proven and that does not meet the United States Constitution’s high bar for an impeachable offense,” Alexander wrote. “There is no need for more evidence to prove that the president asked Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden and his son, Hunter; he said this on television on October 3, 2019, and during his July 25, 2019, telephone call with the president of Ukraine. There is no need for more evidence to conclude that the president withheld United States aid, at least in part, to pressure Ukraine to investigate the Bidens; the House managers have proved this with what they call a ‘mountain of overwhelming evidence.’ ”

The argument is not whether or not Trump did it. It's whether that particular quid pro quo was an impeachable offense.
And I suspect the voting will come down on precise party lines when it happens later today, with the possible exceptions of Manchin in West Virginia (a blue senator in a very deep red state) and Mitt Romney (because Utah is bonkers, hates Trump and the Democrats, and he can pretty much get away with what he likes).


On the general issue - I think Trump is winning in November regardless of who the Democrats put up......unless there is a financial/economic shock before then (in which case he's probably toast). Most incumbent presidential votes come down to the economy, and the majority of Americans have been doing pretty well financially over the past four years.

But I hope that Bernie wins the nomination, because at least then we'll have a genuine debate of the big issues. He won't get distracted or rail-roaded, and will talk about policy and some of the real problems America faces - and will force Trump to address those issues as well (or make him look like an ignorant fool.....both are possible). He's too left-wing for middle America, but may at least get a few more Americans to start thinking........
 
Trump petulantly refusing a handshake..... countered by that snubbed woman tearing up a transcript of his state of the union speech (on a rostrum, behind the Orange one's back).... amazingly American politics is even more infantile than UK politics, currently IMO :rolleyes:

Also had to laugh at "that snubbed woman".

That's Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the House! That role essentially means she's both the Leader of the Opposition and 3rd in line to the Presidency (if Trump and Pence, the VP, were both incapacitated, the Speaker of the House takes over. John Goodman did it in the West Wing!).

She's basically the equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn and Prince William, all rolled into one.
 
Also had to laugh at "that snubbed woman".

That's Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the House! That role essentially means she's both the Leader of the Opposition and 3rd in line to the Presidency (if Trump and Pence, the VP, were both incapacitated, the Speaker of the House takes over. John Goodman did it in the West Wing!).

She's basically the equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn and Prince William, all rolled into one.

and a bit of John Bercow too then?
 
I think this is incorrect - almost noone is now denying that it happened. That Trump made investigation of Biden's son a condition of releasing military aide.

This is the statement that Republican senator Lamar Alexander made, with which a large number of his senate colleagues have concurred, as to why he didn't want to extend the impeachment trial:

“I worked with other senators to make sure that we have the right to ask for more documents and witnesses, but there is no need for more evidence to prove something that has already been proven and that does not meet the United States Constitution’s high bar for an impeachable offense,” Alexander wrote. “There is no need for more evidence to prove that the president asked Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden and his son, Hunter; he said this on television on October 3, 2019, and during his July 25, 2019, telephone call with the president of Ukraine. There is no need for more evidence to conclude that the president withheld United States aid, at least in part, to pressure Ukraine to investigate the Bidens; the House managers have proved this with what they call a ‘mountain of overwhelming evidence.’ ”

The argument is not whether or not Trump did it. It's whether that particular quid pro quo was an impeachable offense.
And I suspect the voting will come down on precise party lines when it happens later today, with the possible exceptions of Manchin in West Virginia (a blue senator in a very deep red state) and Mitt Romney (because Utah is bonkers, hates Trump and the Democrats, and he can pretty much get away with what he likes).


On the general issue - I think Trump is winning in November regardless of who the Democrats put up......unless there is a financial/economic shock before then (in which case he's probably toast). Most incumbent presidential votes come down to the economy, and the majority of Americans have been doing pretty well financially over the past four years.

But I hope that Bernie wins the nomination, because at least then we'll have a genuine debate of the big issues. He won't get distracted or rail-roaded, and will talk about policy and some of the real problems America faces - and will force Trump to address those issues as well (or make him look like an ignorant fool.....both are possible). He's too left-wing for middle America, but may at least get a few more Americans to start thinking........
There was no concrete proof of it in what the Dems chose to present - to be clear, there was lots of I heard, I was told (etc), Ukraine/Russian Foreign Polciy and I thought Sondland was the testimony to catch Trump with his had in in the cookie jar but it didn't turn out like that. That's not a burden of proof that will get through any court system, let alone an impeachment of a president, on that basis, it was an impeachment based on hopes not distilled, provable facts. Lamar Alexander mentions the high bar, and as such, that is what the Dems didn't achieve or get near. The fact the Dems wouldn't call Hunter Biden to the stand says a lot by saying nothing.

The Dems botched it by rushing, Schiff made a mess of certain things hurting his and the Dems credibility and it just descended into a partisan hackathon that besmirches the process and emboldens Trump for 2020. And of course, the Dems have opened it up when the next Democrat President comes in and the Reps find a chink of armour. Will the US Govt actually function or just try to impeach a President they don't like?

With the whole FISA/FISC stuff still bubbling on (Obama's FBI have a lot to answer for), its going to be an interesting few months. That Steele Dossier was largely a fantasy it seems and Flynn is now trying to retract his guilty plea.

I hope Bernie gets the nod - the debates will be fascinating and we'll get to see if the US public reject the "far left" like the UK does. He's a more capable and credible candidate than creepy Joe or Fauxcahontus. Mayor Pete is an outside bet, but is too early?
 
So that`s all over then, some desperate grabbing on the news this morning as to how "Trump will be remembered for this........". His reaction was, pretty much, yuck foo. Got to love populism that appears to be delivering. ?
 
Also had to laugh at "that snubbed woman".

That's Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the House! That role essentially means she's both the Leader of the Opposition and 3rd in line to the Presidency (if Trump and Pence, the VP, were both incapacitated, the Speaker of the House takes over. John Goodman did it in the West Wing!).

She's basically the equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn and Prince William, all rolled into one.
And watching her face on the SOTU was great fun, or so I hear. Bulldog eating a wasp is what I heard.
 
Hopefully will cause the financial markets to stabilise. There’ll probably be the Trump Johnson partnership now much like Reagan and Thatcher
 

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