Stewart Donald anyone.....

[Paul Cannell]

asset strip ?

Kassam engineered a CVA to his benefit, not the clubs (or its creditors), "completed" the stadium to his benefit, not the clubs (other than the obvious we have a pitch to play on and stands to sit in), sold the Manor to himself for an extremely favorable price and then resold to double his money....for his benefit. Developed the land around Grenoble Rd for his benefit, not the clubs...all the time barely keeping us on life support and milking every pound he could out of the door OUFC unlocked for him...and to this day continues to deny assets to the club which could've seen things turn out quite differently....and still we can't maximise the benefit of the stadium, nor resolve issues around our longer term future and home.
[/QUOTE]

In a nutshell then, you're saying that ultimately the club was fucked by Mr Kassam on account of it's intangible or future assets (and then done up the arse on the academy and other stuff)? For his own benefit? Agreed.

Is it not also the case, m'lud, that the best we can hope is that the current board are a bit gentler with us?

 

[Brahma]

There's some big fish about after all. They're not that silly, I am a tosspot.

Anyway, welcome Liam Kelly and North-East's finest, Marcus 'Boro' Browne.

 

[Scotchegg]

Dear, the club was bought with deferred payments - the £4.2m Slippery has taken out (or can take out). Tiger has, thank xhrist, borrowed money from elsiewhere which has evidently enabled him to invest. You're winning hands down at the moment - don't gild the lily.

I 100% agree that our deal was (is?) a little on the dodgy side. But just pointing out that any fallout is not exclusively northern!

 

[Paul Cannell]

So much in life depends on expectations, innit.

 

[MarkG]

Dear, the club was bought with deferred payments - the £4.2m Slippery has taken out (or can take out). Tiger has, thank xhrist, borrowed money from elsiewhere which has evidently enabled him to invest. You're winning hands down at the moment - don't gild the lily.

Did someone say the Eales / Ensco loans had now been repaid on one of the fans phone ins before Christmas? The fact they were called loan notes 2019 suggest they should have been?

Also let's not forget that Eales /Ensco still have a very slightly less that 10% holding in the club. If Tiger and co's plan is to get us up to the Championship and sell the club on for a profit, he gets to share in that.

 

[bazzer9461]

We're being a little blinkered if we suggest Sunderland haven't a bad owner.

Remember the fallout on here when Charlie talked about Tiger not being able to afford the club, how it will have deferred payments and he'd need to borrow money from elsewhere? How he wouldn't be able to invest because he was skint etc?

Yet, SD had bought Sunderland with x amount upfront and the rest being paid from the parachute payments. He then sold Satori 20% of the club for £5m and has since borrowed another £10m from American investors using the entire club as collateral. He has made cuts to the infrastructure at the club, losing scouting networks and a number of personnel who had been at the club for years. SD has even spoken about repairs to the stadium and training ground being needed and that is where he will invest the borrowed money. Meanwhile, although there has been investment in the first team, this has been at the expense of losing players like Maja who was scoring for fun and bringing in Griggs (who ain't). We might see the fun loving decent guy that SD is, but he has left Sunderland in a much bigger mess than when he started and that took some doing.

Sunderland have their fair share of twatty fans, every club has. The difference is that they have a much bigger fan group and have had years of shite, so they come out in greater numbers. It's funny watching them have a meltdown over literally the smallest of things but let's not think that we're any better on here! Imagine having 10 x @Mellowyellow or a dozen @bazzer9461 at the beginning of each transfer window??!!

a bit harsh @Scotchegg and to compare us with those muppets in the North East is out of order. They lose a match and the word meltdown wouldn’t cut it with over 80 pages on the match day thread.
They’re so blinkered ooop north thinking because they’re a big club with big attendances they have a divine right to be in the premiership, but do not associate me with them.

 

[Foley]

Did someone say the Eales / Ensco loans had now been repaid on one of the fans phone ins before Christmas? The fact they were called loan notes 2019 suggest they should have been?

Also let's not forget that Eales /Ensco still have a very slightly less that 10% holding in the club. If Tiger and co's plan is to get us up to the Championship and sell the club on for a profit, he gets to share in that.

I am pretty sure that Tiger confirmed that all of the loan notes had been repaid

 

[Scotchegg]

a bit harsh @Scotchegg and to compare us with those muppets in the North East is out of order. They lose a match and the word meltdown wouldn’t cut it with over 80 pages on the match day thread.
They’re so blinkered ooop north thinking because they’re a big club with big attendances they have a divine right to be in the premiership, but do not associate me with them.

I love you posting, but let's be fair, you don't cope well with transfer delays! Your passion is obvious, and we know that you mean well. But someone looking in from another club might think you a little stressy!

Sunderland are a big club in league 1, as we were a big club in the conference etc. We also expected to walk the league and have the tiny clubs rollover. But we all soon learn that it's not as easy as that.

I'm not defending Sunderland fans, but just showing that forums have their fair share of loons and we're not exempt from them on here (including me!).

 

[horseman]

I love you posting, but let's be fair, you don't cope well with transfer delays! Your passion is obvious, and we know that you mean well. But someone looking in from another club might think you a little stressy!

Sunderland are a big club in league 1, as we were a big club in the conference etc. We also expected to walk the league and have the tiny clubs rollover. But we all soon learn that it's not as easy as that.

I'm not defending Sunderland fans, but just showing that forums have their fair share of loons and we're not exempt from them on here (including me!).

or some tend to look at things from a wider perspective rather than one dimensional all the time.

at the end of the day we all want the best for our club (even this turd )

 

[LondonRoader]

It wasn't too long ago that we were suffering our own case of big club syndrome as we tumbled down the leagues. On previous incarnations of thos forum there were countless posts stating we were too big/too good to go down.
Countless examples of of the new owner/manager/player being the next messiah only for it all to turn to sh*t when we found out said individuals were not in fact the messiah (and some were quite naughty boys).

We've been there, done that. The Mackems current apoplexy and disbelief is akin to that we saw in the glorious Kemp or Patto or Talbot or Conference years. We learned the hard way that there is no such thing as too big or too good, only hard work, commitment and competence can turn around fortunes of a club.

They are very fortunate with what they have and would do well to remember that. Donald is a decent bloke, they should be careful what they wish for....their next owner could be the Mackem Kassam!

There's no denying that might have been what happened, I was going to say the Manor belonged to the bank in it's latter years so not really an asset.

 

[Foley]

There's no denying that might have been what happened, I was going to say the Manor belonged to the bank in it's latter years so not really an asset.

Is that right? Didnt Kassam get a lot more for the Manor than had been mortgaged (I seem to remember this but could be wrong)

 

[Essexyellows]

Kassam bought the Manor out of some sort of receivership for £1, then with some exquisite book keeping transferred it to another company and sold it for circa £16 million. I don`t think mortgages/security came into it.
I`m sure better placed folk than I could embellish that a little.

 

[bazzer9461]

I love you posting, but let's be fair, you don't cope well with transfer delays! Your passion is obvious, and we know that you mean well. But someone looking in from another club might think you a little stressy!

Sunderland are a big club in league 1, as we were a big club in the conference etc. We also expected to walk the league and have the tiny clubs rollover. But we all soon learn that it's not as easy as that.

I'm not defending Sunderland fans, but just showing that forums have their fair share of loons and we're not exempt from them on here (including me!).

What stresses me @Scotchegg are statements like “we’re going to get our business done early” and a week before the window shuts we have 2/3 players in and the forum goes “WHO” and it’s because we’ve missed our targets for one reason or another but this window is WOW the clubs have made a statement and yes I am impressed. ???

 

[PottersRightBoot]

First off, what a tired old article in the Times. This story is months old. It’s the classic North South divide etc zzz.

Second off, Stuart Donald hasn’t done a very good job at Sunderland ( He hardly covered himself with glory at Eastleigh .)

With that budget and that fan base they should have gone up last season. But, they are in fact under Parkinson they now showing signs of life and I see them in playoffs this season; they have a sporting chance of promotion.

Which leads on to the fans. They seemed a good bunch when I went up there back in August and quite measured in their reaction. However that was August. They are now displaying all the classic narcissistic elements of ‘Me 2’ society. They want their success and they want it now because they are the chosen people, the followers of the sleeping giant, better than the rest and on loan to the lower leagues like Robbie Williams on an end of the pier tour.

well life ain’t like that...

 

[uptheus]

asset strip ?
Kassam engineered a CVA to his benefit, not the clubs (or its creditors), "completed" the stadium to his benefit, not the clubs (other than the obvious we have a pitch to play on and stands to sit in), sold the Manor to himself for an extremely favorable price and then resold to double his money....for his benefit. Developed the land around Grenoble Rd for his benefit, not the clubs...all the time barely keeping us on life support and milking every pound he could out of the door OUFC unlocked for him...and to this day continues to deny assets to the club which could've seen things turn out quite differently....and still we can't maximise the benefit of the stadium, nor resolve issues around our longer term future and home.

So maybe we didn't have assets to strip because we were in quite a pickle, but things could have been so much more favorable given that we are ultimately the reason that Kassam has continued to profit from ventures in and around Oxford....it was more a case of asset denial....but there is no room for sentiment in business, I suppose.

Edit - I also forgot the systematic dismantling of our youth and scouting setups....so yeah, asset stripping in the sense that it was denying the club potential future income through financial strangulation.

Whilst using the club/fans to get all the ventures on the cheap and revenues from these ventures to ultimately support the club!

Oh, and sold all our best players without using the money to reinvest in the team.

I remember having Jamie Cooke (rookie newbie) as our main striker to try and maintain our existence in the now Championship league.

 

[outsidethebox]

Kassam bought the Manor out of some sort of receivership for £1, then with some exquisite book keeping transferred it to another company and sold it for circa £16 million. I don`t think mortgages/security came into it.
I`m sure better placed folk than I could embellish that a little.

Also didn't reinvest any of that profit in the club. In 2006 said he would never sell the club without the stadium then did exactly that and managed to pass on the club's debt as part of the deal ........ well done sockless.

FK might have had to get past a few obstacles eg Les Wells when he bought OUFC but he's done very well out of it, sadly at the expense of our club.

 

[Gary Baldi]

I am pretty sure that Tiger confirmed that all of the loan notes had been repaid

Yep, I heard the same thing too.

Companies House shows the charges/debenture are still pending - you'd hope the official paperwork would have been completed if it was sorted:

OXFORD UNITED FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED charges - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

OXFORD UNITED FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

beta.companieshouse.gov.uk

 

[Marked Ox]

First off, what a tired old article in the Times. This story is months old. It’s the classic North South divide etc zzz.

Second off, Stuart Donald hasn’t done a very good job at Sunderland ( He hardly covered himself with glory at Eastleigh .)

With that budget and that fan base they should have gone up last season. But, they are in fact under Parkinson they now showing signs of life and I see them in playoffs this season; they have a sporting chance of promotion.

If true, as claimed by Stewart Donald, that Sunderland is now operationally at breakeven after reorganising off the pitch then I would suggest he has done a good job there. On the pitch not so much but Sunderland did need somebody to sort the off pitch stuff out considering the mess they were in before and I don't think this is being recognised by the Sunderland fans generally on their forum. They are focused on the pitch which I understand but Sunderland have been on a decline for quite a while now and behind the scenes would have been a big part of that so to expect an instant turn around was a tad optimistic.

Use our years in the Conference as an example (which is the Sunderland equivalent I'd say), the 1st season although we made the play offs it was a season made on a foundation of sand. It took us 4 seasons. of which 1 was Chris Wilder rebuilding the 1st team set up before the promotion season. Then once back in the FL it has taken 10 years to be pushing for promotion to the Championship whilst rebuilding off the pitch as well. Hence why if Stewart Donald's claim (I have no reason to doubt this) is true then sorting out off the pitch was important for Sunderland's long term rebuilding.

 

[uptheus]

Kassam bought the Manor out of some sort of receivership for £1, then with some exquisite book keeping transferred it to another company and sold it for circa £16 million. I don`t think mortgages/security came into it.
I`m sure better placed folk than I could embellish that a little.

I think he sold it for £12m with outstanding debts of £5m, so basically making a £7m profit which is roughly what it cost him to build the Kassam!

 

[uptheus]

Also didn't reinvest any of that profit in the club. In 2006 said he would never sell the club without the stadium then did exactly that and managed to pass on the club's debt as part of the deal ........ well done sockless.

FK might have had to get past a few obstacles eg Les Wells when he bought OUFC but he's done very well out of it, sadly at the expense of our club.

Or some think it was him being a good businessman!

I could think of other words to describe him!