Game of Thrones - WARNING, CONTAINS SPOILERS

Arya's going to kill Dany. Only way I can see it ending.

Dany lost the plot, glad they got that retched part of her storyline over and done with now.

And we got Clegane Bowl. More later
 
S8 ep5 mini spoiler ....well filmed etc, but plotwise all a bit rushed imo as in producers tried to cram in sub plot conclusions to finish some main characters storylines, inevitably resulting in hurried conclusions..... other thought if dany had approached iron fleet the same way as she did in ep5 in ep4 shed still have 2 dragons!!!....good spectacle (ep5 ) but hurried in several sub plots
 
S8 ep5 mini spoiler ....well filmed etc, but plotwise all a bit rushed imo as in producers tried to cram in sub plot conclusions to finish some main characters storylines, inevitably resulting in hurried conclusions..... other thought if dany had approached iron fleet the same way as she did in ep5 in ep4 shed still have 2 dragons!!!....good spectacle (ep5 ) but hurried in several sub plots
Agree. The low episode count has hamstrung them for the past 2 seasons into rushing the story. I've accepted the program will be what it will be and am just going along with the ride in the knowledge that when GRRM finally finishes the next book, it'll all be a little different.

I've really enjoyed the program and while some of it may not have been to my taste, it's nitpicking. Overall, it's pushed TV as a medium forward.

The Euron/Jamie fight was both silly and pointless. No need for it other than seeing Euron die to tie up a silly loose end. Lena Headey did a marvellous job in that episode with the gruel she had. Same for Peter Dinklage.

I wonder what the parents who called their kid Khaleesi and Daenrys think now? You named your child after a genocidal maniac... Whoops
 
So positives:
The cinematography and the spectacle were incredible. And the choice to show most of the action from ground level to really emphasise the destruction (I don't believe we saw Dany's face at all in the episode's second half) maximized the impact.

Clegane Bowl was fun (even if a little sad for the Hound.....wanted vengeance all his life, and at the end realized there wasn't much to be had)

I actually liked Cersei & Jamie's demise. Slightly understated, but that's not a bad thing. She was a complex character, and it was good to see they didn't send her out like a pantomime villain

Negatives (and I'm going to rant now):
Dany. Oh, Dany.
They spend seven and a half seasons crafting another complex character. She's ruthless, absolutely. Willing to slay her enemies in horrible ways to achieve her goals? Check. Willing to accept collateral damage? Probably. She's also thoroughly isolated - the show has done a great job of emphasizing this over the last few episodes.
But genocidal? Nuking the innocent, not because it's necessary, but out of anger and hatred and frustration? The show has shown us nothing to make us believe she's capable of that. In the rush to get the show wrapped up, they just decided to skip over character progression and leap straight from ruthless to insane.

If the bells had rung, and she'd flown over and melted the Red Keep - killing Cersei and a few thousand innocents - then I could have bought it.
But doling out fiery death and destruction to innocent men, women and children for the sake of it? I mean Joffrey & Ramsey were psychopathic, sadistic bastards (literally and figuratively) but neither of them did anything remotely on the same evil scale as Dany last night.

I'm written a little about how I think the show has lost its way since they overtook GRRM. But that was by far the most egregious example. It's a shame that the showrunners were such excellent adapters, but such terrible writers......

But with you on the Arya killing Dany. Less clear what's going to happen to Jon, Tyrion and Drogon.
Maybe they're just going to wipe everyone out Hamlet-style? I think Davos would make a good Horatio...….
 
Going to again borrow an external article, because it eloquently expresses my feelings about this episode:


"The failure to justify Daenerys’ choice to raze King’s Landing is emblematic of the show’s rushed conclusion and how it has failed her character and her story. Given more time, we could see Daenerys’ descent from confident ruler of Essos to isolated, paranoid maniac. Given more time, we could see how greatness morphs into madness and no notices or comments because they’re attached to an ideal or they’re willing to ignore clear warning signs (like executing innocents as opposed to people who have tried to kill you or enslave you). There is a way to get to Daenerys, flying high above King’s Landing, deciding to burn the whole thing down even though she’s already victorious. But “The Bells” didn’t get there. It wasn’t even close."


EDIT - actually the following was the article I actually went to that site to read, as the writer makes me laugh with his GoT recaps each week:


And not only did he make me laugh again this week enough to want to share it on here, he also again expressed sentiments that echo my feelings about the direction the show took last night.....in slightly more colourful language.....

But much like a significant portion of Thrones‘ back half, the writers just didn’t put in the work. Almost, but not quite. There’s a thin but definite line between ruthless (Tywin Lannister) and batshit murderous insane (King Aerys II Targaryen), and Dany has always straddled it toward the ruthless side. Torching the Unsullied’s masters in Astapor. Crucifying the slave masters in Meereen. Executing the Tarlys. Being super okay with boning her nephew. Most of these are, obviously, not very nice things, but they’re not cruelties, they’re means to a very clear end: Dany winning the throne. That’s what sits awkwardly in her destroying King’s Landing…she had won. And the moment she kept going past that victory she leaped from ruthless to cruel with nary a hint of warning. Being rash and petty and flying straight to the Red Keep to BBQ Cersei for the lols? I’d buy it! Burning innocent children in the streets? An unexpected development to say the least!

You just gotta work with the evidence you yourself provided, you know? It’s like if Benioff and Weiss decided to have Tyrion f**k a pie, right, like mid-episode just cut to Tyrion absolutely going to town on a freshly-baked pie. A few of us would probably be like “that seems a little out of character.” Imagine if the explanation from the showrunners was then, “Well, we’ve shown Tyrion having sex before.” That’s not the same! Adjacent, certainly but not the same. If you want to have a character end up as the pie-banging guy, you need to dutifully plant that seed for longer than an episode and a half. If not, you’re just, you know, you’re just having a guy f**k a pie.
 
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Kit Harrington did some fine 'smell the fart' acting in that episode. He must be proud of himself.

Part of me wonders if the Knights of the Vale and Sansa will ride to the rescue of Jon next week, as they did in Battle of the Barstewards. We've all assumed that the North is no longer part of the story and it's the sort of WTF stuff that the show runners are fond of. Varys was writing his notes as well and the Greyjoys have ships (and a teleporter).
 
I would love this... According to the actor (Ian McElhinney) who played Barristan Selmey, yesterday

"George has already written Books 6 and 7, and as far as he’s concerned there only are seven books. But he struck an agreement with David and Dan, the showrunners on the series, that he would not publish the final two books until the series has completed. So if all goes well, in another month or two we might get Books 6 and 7, and I’m intrigued to know how Barristan, for instance, ends up going through those final two books. George, I talked to him during Season 1 and he did say to me that Barristan had a very interesting journey. But unfortunately I didn’t get to play all of that, so we’ll have to wait and see.”
 
After being a bit disappointed by Dany's war crimes, I reflected and thought that maybe it offered a bit of a satisfactory counterpoint to the fact that the Battle of Winterfell didn't end up being as apocalyptic as it could have been. A bunch of people died there, but not many important people, and the whole Ice King, North of the Wall thing was put to bed comfortably. That lack of apocalypse was then balanced by the destruction wrought by Dany's desire for revenge at King's Landing, where lots of important people did die.
It does raise the technical annoyance as to why the Ice Dragon didn't do to Winterfell what Dany did to KL.
 
Agree. And even a counter point to why the normal Dragons didn't do the same thing to the army of the dead. I guess that is where we are with the program.

But the CGI and directing of the Dragon stuff was excellent, regardless of some story issues.
 
Agree. And even a counter point to why the normal Dragons didn't do the same thing to the army of the dead. I guess that is where we are with the program.

But the CGI and directing of the Dragon stuff was excellent, regardless of some story issues.
Could the cold have hampered the fire power?
 
After being a bit disappointed by Dany's war crimes, I reflected and thought that maybe it offered a bit of a satisfactory counterpoint to the fact that the Battle of Winterfell didn't end up being as apocalyptic as it could have been. A bunch of people died there, but not many important people, and the whole Ice King, North of the Wall thing was put to bed comfortably. That lack of apocalypse was then balanced by the destruction wrought by Dany's desire for revenge at King's Landing, where lots of important people did die.
It does raise the technical annoyance as to why the Ice Dragon didn't do to Winterfell what Dany did to KL.


The counterpoint with the Battle of Winterfell kind of emphasizes the problem for me though - as Dany went from risking her life there in order to save the people of Westeros.....to two episodes later committing genocide against the people of Westeros just for giggles.

If they'd had a couple of ten episode seasons to show Dany's downfall at the same pace as the first six seasons of the show operated (and they hadn't wasted episodes with the idiotic trip north of the wall in Season 7), then it really could have worked. They had seeded enough troubling moments over the course of the show that it was possible to believe she was capable of this descent.

But it didn't come off as believable the way they approached it. The savior of the poor and downtrodden switched to flambeing the poor and downtrodden overnight.

I wonder why they did decide to rush it so much at the end. It's not as if HBO were getting tired of making money off the show. I guess the showrunners just wanted to move on to other things.

(or the Barristan Selmy rumour is true - although GRRM has strongly denied it)
 
The showrunners are off to do 3 Star Wars films, so the recent storytelling will fight right in! In fact, they may have to dumb it down for some fans even more.

The problem with Dany's downfall is one of the expectation of it never quite happening fully as she has arguably been more cruel than the Cersei, but never tipping over the edge into true madness. Being cute meant she got away with stuff that others didn't.
 
The counterpoint with the Battle of Winterfell kind of emphasizes the problem for me though - as Dany went from risking her life there in order to save the people of Westeros.....to two episodes later committing genocide against the people of Westeros just for giggles.

If they'd had a couple of ten episode seasons to show Dany's downfall at the same pace as the first six seasons of the show operated (and they hadn't wasted episodes with the idiotic trip north of the wall in Season 7), then it really could have worked. They had seeded enough troubling moments over the course of the show that it was possible to believe she was capable of this descent.

But it didn't come off as believable the way they approached it. The savior of the poor and downtrodden switched to flambeing the poor and downtrodden overnight.

I wonder why they did decide to rush it so much at the end. It's not as if HBO were getting tired of making money off the show. I guess the showrunners just wanted to move on to other things.

(or the Barristan Selmy rumour is true - although GRRM has strongly denied it)
Baffling that they appear to be rushing. The richest tv series in history surely.

What’s the Barristan rumour?
 
What’s the Barristan rumour?
According to the actor who played BS, GRRM has finished both the remaining books but has agreed to withhold them from release until the TV show has concluded.
 
According to the actor who played BS, GRRM has finished both the remaining books but has agreed to withhold them from release until the TV show has concluded.
Thank you sir.

If they’re totally different I can imagine a rehash in ten years time of the last two seasons
 
The amount of characters who didn't make from book to TV will make the ending quite different. Kevan Lannister barely it to TV, but is a lot more prominent in the books and the story is more intertwined. Mance Rayder is still in the books, if I recall correctly.
 
The amount of characters who didn't make from book to TV will make the ending quite different. Kevan Lannister barely it to TV, but is a lot more prominent in the books and the story is more intertwined. Mance Rayder is still in the books, if I recall correctly.
Grey lady (ressurected lady stark) featured in books but not in the tv adaptation....arya's dire wolf & its pack of half dire wolves features in the book s but only fleetingly acknowleged in tv adaptation too ...theres other characters in books who dont appear in the tv series at all
 
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The amount of characters who didn't make from book to TV will make the ending quite different. Kevan Lannister barely it to TV, but is a lot more prominent in the books and the story is more intertwined. Mance Rayder is still in the books, if I recall correctly.

I read all the books following getting into the show in Season 2 - but if I recall, didn't Varys murder Kevan Lannister right at the end of the last one?
And yes, Mance Rayder was still alive as they faked his death. And there's the whole 'Aegon Targaeryan is alive' and 'random Dornish 'put Myrcella on the throne' threads going on that never crossed over to the TV show. And Lady Stoneheart, of course.

However - it's now eight years since Book 5 came out, and there's still no publication date for the next one.
GRRM is 70 now, and not a healthy-looking 70, and presumably richer than he ever needs to be.
I'm not sure I like the chances of the book series ever getting finished...…..
 
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