General The "woke" society and liberalism.

So yeah, if there was a popular Christmas song that mentioned fat Leicester twats, you’d probably laugh a bit about it, maybe get a bit fed up, but you wouldn’t make a big fuss. But if it had only been legal to be a fat Leicester t**t for half a century, and not so long before that it had been a capital offence, well you might be a bit more ‘woke’ about it.

Wouldn`t bother me in the slightest.... I`m an Oxonian. :D
It`s a word - as the old saying goes "sticks & stones may break my bones etc etc".
And less of the "fat"...... it`s middle aged spread... :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
Do you not recall Thomas Bowdler, Richard?

I'm frightfully offended, to be honest, that you are claiming that the current wave is the preserve of the 'far left', or is it another flowering of our suddenly silent friend @bashamwonderland and his 'Postmodern Marxism'?

I’m happy to hear alternate suggestions of its origins. Point being not the origin , but that whoever we bucket as being responsible, it appears to have driven a counterproductive outcome
 
Can't call it "the other one" - someone will get offended that you have singled it out as different.

Has this thread taught you nothing, man?? (and sorry if I have offended you/they by assuming how you/they wish to be identified)
<smug>I prefer to be University-non-binary myself</smug>
 
So yeah, if there was a popular Christmas song that mentioned fat Leicester twats, you’d probably laugh a bit about it, maybe get a bit fed up, but you wouldn’t make a big fuss. But if it had only been legal to be a fat Leicester t**t for half a century, and not so long before that it had been a capital offence, well you might be a bit more ‘woke’ about it.

That sounds like a good record, who's it by again?
 
As someone who is both gay and left-leaning, I will try to explain the Fairytale of New York debacle for you.

Now, I'll start off by saying that I myself am not offended by the song in of itself. It's one of those things I've grown up with, so the f-word used in it doesn't really correlate to me with direct homophobia. However, for a lot of gay people it does, especially the ones who were subject to school yard homophobic bullying, or abuse in the streets where that exact word would be used. It offends and upsets a lot of gay people.

If we assess what's actually happening, Radio 1 have decided to play the 1992 version that MacColl and the Pogues performed on Top of the Pops, which used different lyrics for two reasons. 1) MacColl didn't feel comfortable using the word, and 2) it was broadcast before the watershed so that word wasn't allowed. It's also worth noting that Radio 2 will still play the original, and Radio 6 Music DJs will have a choice of which one to play.

I've tried to find the 1992 version and I can't find it widely available anywhere, not on Spotify or iTunes, only in video form on YouTube. The one with the slur in it is still available to buy and stream almost everywhere. So when you factor in all the above, it's not even censorship as it's still available from so many places.

Now, you may be thinking 'f****t' isn't homophobic anyway. Well, we can consider the ways in which this word is used. 1) Mr Brain's pork balls, 2) old Irish slang word for 'lazy' (which is disputed) and 3) a common homophobic slur. None of the first two are hardly common parlance, and the third is not acceptable for anyone to say. You direct it at a colleague in a workplace, you'll at minimum receive disciplinary action. And even if you don't think this insult is a homophobic slur in the context of the song, it's a powerful word with some deeply upsetting connotations attached to it. The question is: why would you want to upset anyone over a Christmas song? Especially someone who's part of a minority who probably had that word shouted at them as they were being beaten up in the school playground?

It's hardly a word you would use often, and it's no skin off your nose if you don't ever say that word again. A few people have told me that when they see straight people singing that song, they take great glee in shouting that particular word, saying it louder and with more enthusiasm because that's the only time they're now allowed to say it. And when they're told they can't say it anymore because it's offensive, they get upset and angry, lashing out at anyone who disagrees. And I think that's the thing that gets me annoyed. It's when straight people are throwing the thoughts, feelings and opinions of gay people in the bin over a word that's only common use is as a homophobic slur. If a gay person says something is homophobic, it's your obligation to listen to them and take it on board. They might not always be right, but 99% of the time they are.

I hope that answers your question.

After reading this post, I immediately thought that you were incredibly brave to "come out" on a football forum.

But then I thought that maybe this is the problem. In the 21st century, with all the rest of the s**t going on, it is still seen as difficult for some people to talk about something as innocent as who they fall in love with.

On the subject of the song and the fallout over the "f" word, I think that we now live in an age where social media creates a whirlpool of anger which otherwise wouldn't exist. I've yet to see any valid argument as to why we should still use a word which is known to be offensive, but many like yours @battman that show how much hurt has been caused by this in our very recent past.

Simply drop the word, move on, and enjoy your life without hurting others!
 
After reading this post, I immediately thought that you were incredibly brave to "come out" on a football forum.

But then I thought that maybe this is the problem. In the 21st century, with all the rest of the s**t going on, it is still seen as difficult for some people to talk about something as innocent as who they fall in love with.

On the subject of the song and the fallout over the "f" word, I think that we now live in an age where social media creates a whirlpool of anger which otherwise wouldn't exist. I've yet to see any valid argument as to why we should still use a word which is known to be offensive, but many like yours @battman that show how much hurt has been caused by this in our very recent past.

Simply drop the word, move on, and enjoy your life without hurting others!
Have you seen Shane MacGowan's explanation of why the word was used?

"Her dialogue is as accurate as I could make it but she is not intended to offend! She is just supposed to be an authentic character and not all characters in songs and stories are angels or even decent and respectable, sometimes characters in songs and stories have to be evil or nasty in order to tell the story effectively"

I think this is a good explanation and gives an effective argument for why the word should remain.
 
Have you seen Shane MacGowan's explanation of why the word was used?

"Her dialogue is as accurate as I could make it but she is not intended to offend! She is just supposed to be an authentic character and not all characters in songs and stories are angels or even decent and respectable, sometimes characters in songs and stories have to be evil or nasty in order to tell the story effectively"

I think this is a good explanation and gives an effective argument for why the word should remain.
Yeah yeah its a character speaking, and being insulting. I dont have a problem with the word being used in that way, buit gay people might, and straight people can’t speak for them.
 
Have you seen Shane MacGowan's explanation of why the word was used?

"Her dialogue is as accurate as I could make it but she is not intended to offend! She is just supposed to be an authentic character and not all characters in songs and stories are angels or even decent and respectable, sometimes characters in songs and stories have to be evil or nasty in order to tell the story effectively"

I think this is a good explanation and gives an effective argument for why the word should remain.
The song/story represents a drunken argument between two people who love and hate each other, and are being deliberately hurtful. It's become iconic as an anti-christmas song, and I get that at a time of Jingle Bells and Mistletoe and Wine we all need a different narrative!

But that narrative doesn't change by missing out the word, it just becomes less offensive to others.
 
Maybe change it to “You scumbag, you maggot, you cheap lousy gammon”. Still scans and almost rhymes, and it would interesting to see the response.

Thing is words, like society, can change and evolve in their meaning over time, but the usage and associated meaning is purely contextual.
"I had a lovely honey roasted gammon joint for Boxing Day" doesn`t mean you are seeking to insult anyone.
Nor does it suggest you have murdered and cannibalised your middle aged, right leaning, brexit supporting neighbour. :D
 
Thing is words, like society, can change and evolve in their meaning over time, but the usage and associated meaning is purely contextual.
"I had a lovely honey roasted gammon joint for Boxing Day" doesn`t mean you are seeking to insult anyone.
Nor does it suggest you have murdered and cannibalised your middle aged, right leaning, brexit supporting neighbour. :D
Meh don’t give me ideas! MODS I’m only joking
 

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