Manager/Coach Robbo to Brizzle City

I think Wigan’s ownership will be sorted pretty quickly. Whether Wigan’s new chairman could afford Karl’s compensation, who knows. But an attractive job for someone.
 
Leysboy said:
Terrible news for Wigan, because Paul Cook has done an amazing job, and very nearly pulled safety off. The whole thing is a mess though, because you have to look at the EFL to allow people to takeover clubs without doing the necessary checks. Shame on them.
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I understand why people get angry with the Football League management but everybody jumps to it is the League's fault and imo it is partially their fault but I'm not sure what legal measures they have to stop this without clubs changing the rules themselves (the Salary Cap may be the start). When in reality, this gives the dodgy owners/buyers a get out clause as that was where Wigan, Bolton* and Bury fans directed a significant portion of their ire, not so much on those overspending or doing dodgy deals behind closed doors. I've asked before and not received an answer (not aimed at you Leysboy):

What can the Football League actually do to stop these takeovers within the law (that they are constrained by)? If the takeover is carried out in Hong Kong or elsewhere overseas and is a fait accompli, then what exactly could the League do other than what they've done, especially when it appears to have been done quickly and secretly for nefarious means?

*I didn't see many Bolton fans complaining about spending £250,000 compensation on their new management team or signing 32 year old Eoin Doyle on a 3 year deal (with undoubtedly a significant salary as he was rumoured to be on £5k a week at Bradford) less than a year after their financial collapse yet it is the League's fault they were in financial trouble before for some of them! They haven't learnt at all and if it all happens again it will be the League's fault for the same people blah, blah, blah.
 
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Marked Ox said:
I understand why people get angry with the Football League management but everybody jumps to it is the League's fault and imo it is partially their fault but I'm not sure what legal measures they have to stop this without clubs changing the rules themselves (the Salary Cap may be the start). When in reality, this gives the dodgy owners/buyers a get out clause as that was where Wigan, Bolton* and Bury fans directed a significant portion of their ire, not so much on those overspending or doing dodgy deals behind closed doors. I've asked before and not received an answer (not aimed at you Leysboy):

What can the Football League actually do to stop these takeovers within the law (that they are constrained by)? If the takeover is carried out in Hong Kong or elsewhere overseas and is a fait accompli, then what exactly could the League do other than what they've done, especially when it appears to have been done quickly and secretly for nefarious means?

*I didn't see many Bolton fans complaining about spending £250,000 compensation on their new management team or signing 32 year old Eoin Doyle on a 3 year deal (with undoubtedly a siginifant salary as he was rumoured to be on £5k a week at Bradford) less than a year after their financial collapse yet it is the League's fault they were in financial trouble before for some of them! They haven't learnt at all and if it all happens again it will be the League's fault for the same people blah, blah, blah.
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I think Bolton have a sizeable loam to repay by the end of this season although I suspect because of the Coronavirus it maybe deferred for a year but it still has to be paid.
 
bazzer9461 said:
I think Bolton have a sizeable loam to repay by the end of this season although I suspect because of the Coronavirus it maybe deferred for a year but it still has to be paid.
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Hasn't stopped sizeable spending even though they can't pay transfer fees at the moment!
 
Marked Ox said:
Hasn't stopped sizeable spending even though they can't pay transfer fees at the moment!
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I believe they secured a 20 million pound loan so as to carry on playing but I maybe mistaken but I think it had to be repaid by the end of next season.
 
bazzer9461 said:
I believe they secured a 20 million pound loan so as to carry on playing but I maybe mistaken but I think it had to be repaid by the end of next season.
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I think you're right and given C19, that might be something of an issue.
 
Marked Ox said:
I understand why people get angry with the Football League management but everybody jumps to it is the League's fault and imo it is partially their fault but I'm not sure what legal measures they have to stop this without clubs changing the rules themselves (the Salary Cap may be the start). When in reality, this gives the dodgy owners/buyers a get out clause as that was where Wigan, Bolton* and Bury fans directed a significant portion of their ire, not so much on those overspending or doing dodgy deals behind closed doors. I've asked before and not received an answer (not aimed at you Leysboy):

What can the Football League actually do to stop these takeovers within the law (that they are constrained by)? If the takeover is carried out in Hong Kong or elsewhere overseas and is a fait accompli, then what exactly could the League do other than what they've done, especially when it appears to have been done quickly and secretly for nefarious means?

*I didn't see many Bolton fans complaining about spending £250,000 compensation on their new management team or signing 32 year old Eoin Doyle on a 3 year deal (with undoubtedly a siginifant salary as he was rumoured to be on £5k a week at Bradford) less than a year after their financial collapse yet it is the League's fault they were in financial trouble before for some of them! They haven't learnt at all and if it all happens again it will be the League's fault for the same people blah, blah, blah.
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Spot on. The moaning from football fans because their club hasn’t been allowed to spend fortunes running up debts that they then never repay, essentially cheating, is the reason we will never get sane financial rules governing the game.
 
Marked Ox said:
I understand why people get angry with the Football League management but everybody jumps to it is the League's fault and imo it is partially their fault but I'm not sure what legal measures they have to stop this without clubs changing the rules themselves (the Salary Cap may be the start). When in reality, this gives the dodgy owners/buyers a get out clause as that was where Wigan, Bolton* and Bury fans directed a significant portion of their ire, not so much on those overspending or doing dodgy deals behind closed doors. I've asked before and not received an answer (not aimed at you Leysboy):

What can the Football League actually do to stop these takeovers within the law (that they are constrained by)? If the takeover is carried out in Hong Kong or elsewhere overseas and is a fait accompli, then what exactly could the League do other than what they've done, especially when it appears to have been done quickly and secretly for nefarious means?

*I didn't see many Bolton fans complaining about spending £250,000 compensation on their new management team or signing 32 year old Eoin Doyle on a 3 year deal (with undoubtedly a siginifant salary as he was rumoured to be on £5k a week at Bradford) less than a year after their financial collapse yet it is the League's fault they were in financial trouble before for some of them! They haven't learnt at all and if it all happens again it will be the League's fault for the same people blah, blah, blah.
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You would think that the EFL/FA would look into this so as to prevent a repeat by the club concerned otherwise if they can get away with whatever and fail to repay and then sell other clubs may also look into it, take Derby County and them selling the the ground to get round FFP rules. Breaches of the FFP are so commonplace and they were designed to try and keep clubs on a level footing financially. The FA should set a team up to look into individual clubs and to go through with a fine comb and check to see if they comply.
 
bazzer9461 said:
You would think that the EFL/FA would look into this so as to prevent a repeat by the club concerned otherwise if they can get away with whatever and fail to repay and then sell other clubs may also look into it, take Derby County and them selling the the ground to get round FFP rules. Breaches of the FFP are so commonplace and they were designed to try and keep clubs on a level footing financially. The FA should set a team up to look into individual clubs and to go through with a fine comb and check to see if they comply.
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The start would have to be a proper financial review system with clear penalties for failing to meet clear, unambiguous requirements. Only looking from the outside, France seem to manage it but they have set the rules to do so and when clubs have financial shenanigans they don't give points deductions, they straight demote them a fair few leagues (iirc Grenoble and Strasbourg have been relegated to the regional leagues from this but could be wrong).
 
Marked Ox said:
I understand why people get angry with the Football League management but everybody jumps to it is the League's fault and imo it is partially their fault but I'm not sure what legal measures they have to stop this without clubs changing the rules themselves (the Salary Cap may be the start). When in reality, this gives the dodgy owners/buyers a get out clause as that was where Wigan, Bolton* and Bury fans directed a significant portion of their ire, not so much on those overspending or doing dodgy deals behind closed doors. I've asked before and not received an answer (not aimed at you Leysboy):

What can the Football League actually do to stop these takeovers within the law (that they are constrained by)? If the takeover is carried out in Hong Kong or elsewhere overseas and is a fait accompli, then what exactly could the League do other than what they've done, especially when it appears to have been done quickly and secretly for nefarious means?

*I didn't see many Bolton fans complaining about spending £250,000 compensation on their new management team or signing 32 year old Eoin Doyle on a 3 year deal (with undoubtedly a siginifant salary as he was rumoured to be on £5k a week at Bradford) less than a year after their financial collapse yet it is the League's fault they were in financial trouble before for some of them! They haven't learnt at all and if it all happens again it will be the League's fault for the same people blah, blah, blah.
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Only back in January there were fans on here saying that we lacked ambition by not signing Chris Cadden for £1m or that we had given up by selling Fos/Bap. The football industry is driven by dreamers, either on the terrace, in the dug outs or in the boardroom, always wanting bigger and better players on bigger and better contracts. At the same time many of the same fans demanding more signings also see Sky as being a big factor in killing off the modern game.

We can't have it all ways. Very few football clubs generate their own income. Nearly all rely on tv deals, sponsorship, player sales and owners with very deep pockets. But once the bubble bursts there is nothing left and we all look to the efl to ask why they let this happen. We have all let this happen. Even now, a salary cap is imposed to try to help clubs survive, and we don't like it because we want to spend as much as we can, regardless of what happens to other clubs.

Honestly, how many on here would care if clubs went bust if it meant that we got promotion? And would that be selfish and the end of club football as we know, or just natural selection that happens in all other aspects of life?
 
Scotchegg said:
Only back in January there were fans on here saying that we lacked ambition by not signing Chris Cadden for £1m or that we had given up by selling Fos/Bap. The football industry is driven by dreamers, either on the terrace, in the dug outs or in the boardroom, always wanting bigger and better players on bigger and better contracts. At the same time many of the same fans demanding more signings also see Sky as being a big factor in killing off the modern game.

We can't have it all ways. Very few football clubs generate their own income. Nearly all rely on tv deals, sponsorship, player sales and owners with very deep pockets. But once the bubble bursts there is nothing left and we all look to the efl to ask why they let this happen. We have all let this happen. Even now, a salary cap is imposed to try to help clubs survive, and we don't like it because we want to spend as much as we can, regardless of what happens to other clubs.

Honestly, how many on here would care if clubs went bust if it meant that we got promotion? And would that be selfish and the end of club football as we know, or just natural selection that happens in all other aspects of life?
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i was one of those who questioned the timing of the sales and with a rare opportunity for promotion staring you in the face whether it was too big a gamble and so called shrewd Businessmen do not tend to take such risks. Here we are a few short months later with little or no income and unlikely to see significant crowds in the stadium for the foreseeable future and those same shrewd businessmen then announce that this season we are really going for it when starting from scratch.
it was an odd decision back in January and a very odd statement now.
 
Scotchegg said:
Only back in January there were fans on here saying that we lacked ambition by not signing Chris Cadden for £1m or that we had given up by selling Fos/Bap. The football industry is driven by dreamers, either on the terrace, in the dug outs or in the boardroom, always wanting bigger and better players on bigger and better contracts. At the same time many of the same fans demanding more signings also see Sky as being a big factor in killing off the modern game.

We can't have it all ways. Very few football clubs generate their own income. Nearly all rely on tv deals, sponsorship, player sales and owners with very deep pockets. But once the bubble bursts there is nothing left and we all look to the efl to ask why they let this happen. We have all let this happen. Even now, a salary cap is imposed to try to help clubs survive, and we don't like it because we want to spend as much as we can, regardless of what happens to other clubs.

Honestly, how many on here would care if clubs went bust if it meant that we got promotion? And would that be selfish and the end of club football as we know, or just natural selection that happens in all other aspects of life?
Click to expand...
I am not sure a lot of fans were screaming for us to spend 1m on Cadden. A lot were asking for him to be replaced by someone though which it turns out we failed to do. Plus I would agree with our manager that selling of Fos/Bap in Jan was a mistake. The whole Cadden signing and trying to do a lot of business in Jan definitely was a mistake. Did it cost us? Not sure, but I don't think it helped, it may of well contributed to the Jan slump. We are not a massive club and we do have to adopt a selling model. I think most of the critiscim around Jan came from the timing of the selling and failure to land players for certain positions. I agree with KR the club should agree who goes when and make it clear to the players that we will not be holding Jan fire sales. We need a plan and stick to it to give the team on the pitch maximum stability and maximum chance of success. I think some of us are frustrated that although we over performed our budget even greater prises were easily within our reach (something that may not happen again for a few seasons).

A club like ours its debatable that without the stadium we can ever be both competitive and financially stable at any level given the clubs we are up against. Salary caps may help us or hinder us. The current suggestions, with the vast chasm between leagues is nothing short of farcical. It effectively fixes teams in place and will mean any relegated club will have to offload its team. A fair system that protects all clubs that also can't be corrupted in some way is very difficult to think of. I would never want any club to go bust and would love to see some sort of rules to help this. What those are quite frakly i don't know, but i do know I am not in favour of salary caps unless the caps between divisions are a lot closer togteher.
 
horseman said:
i was one of those who questioned the timing of the sales and with a rare opportunity for promotion staring you in the face whether it was too big a gamble and so called shrewd Businessmen do not tend to take such risks. Here we are a few short months later with little or no income and unlikely to see significant crowds in the stadium for the foreseeable future and those same shrewd businessmen then announce that this season we are really going for it when starting from scratch.
it was an odd decision back in January and a very odd statement now.
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Perhaps the cash flow from the deals has helped the club plan for the future, and certainly we had no choice on Fosu going due to the release clause in his contract. Baptiste is a tougher one, but equally, there is a risk with him being injured. Sadly, I don't think we had a choice on either deal.
 
Gary Baldi said:
Perhaps the cash flow from the deals has helped the club plan for the future, and certainly we had no choice on Fosu going due to the release clause in his contract. Baptiste is a tougher one, but equally, there is a risk with him being injured. Sadly, I don't think we had a choice on either deal.
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Yep. The mistake was in not having prepared any contingency when we knew Cadden was leaving, and we knew we needed additional firepower up front. A last minute punt on Grigg and an uninterested O'Donnell was not really cutting the mustard.
 
greatunclekip said:
Yep. The mistake was in not having prepared any contingency when we knew Cadden was leaving, and we knew we needed additional firepower up front. A last minute punt on Grigg and an uninterested O'Donnell was not really cutting the mustard.
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We also had a deal for Nico Williams nigh on done but the Liverpool's FA Cup tie against Shrewsbury scuppered that deal. Grigg sounds like a case of Sunderland dysfunction and egos getting in the way. I wonder if O'Donnell is regretting not signing now the football landscape has changed?

Sadly, sometimes deals fall apart regardless of what you have done or planned.
 
greatunclekip said:
Yep. The mistake was in not having prepared any contingency when we knew Cadden was leaving, and we knew we needed additional firepower up front. A last minute punt on Grigg and an uninterested O'Donnell was not really cutting the mustard.
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it's what i bring up each season that Loan deals can hinder come January and more so if you have no concrete plan and when it's known it's usual a very poor time to get any decent players available let alone clinch them.

in answer to @Gary Baldi it was generally known that clubs were interested in Baptiste and a bid likely forthcoming, it was not therefore too difficult to either turn down the bid given the timing and our promotion opportunity or certainly have replacements in place rather than let 2 go with a few hours of the window closing leaving our manager with no time to act. My point being that cash flow would have been better reinvested to aid a promotion push and certainly more so in light of the odd pre season statement.
 
Scotchegg said:
Only back in January there were fans on here saying that we lacked ambition by not signing Chris Cadden for £1m or that we had given up by selling Fos/Bap. The football industry is driven by dreamers, either on the terrace, in the dug outs or in the boardroom, always wanting bigger and better players on bigger and better contracts. At the same time many of the same fans demanding more signings also see Sky as being a big factor in killing off the modern game.
Click to expand...
Not sure that's fair. I don't think any of the more realistic posters wanted to spend that sort of money on a right back - and the Fos/Bap thing was more because it was done so late there was no time to get replacements for both of them (although Brown who arrived on the 9th Jan was probably brought in because we knew Fosu - who left on the 31st - was going?).
Especially now, football clubs are between a rock and a hard place - their income is likely to be severely slashed this year, their players worth less in the transfer market but many of their costs remaining the same.
Personally (and I know this won't be popular!) I would be perfectly OK with *not* having a single big signing this summer - never mind having a player with the highest ever wages for the club, whoever that is - if that makes it more likely that the club will come out of this situation in a decent financial position (i.e. actually existing and being in a reasonably sustainable situation). If that means signing promising young players from non-league, Ireland, Scotland or Timbucktoo - fine with me. The existing players have enough about them to form a decent spine to the team, and we'd manage.
 
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