Live music post-covid

[chuckbert]

As much as I appreciate your points, when and where has singing been shown to be dangerous? That is an absolute load of nonsense. Wasn’t by chance a ‘government expert’ that said that, was it?

LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You

For all those people who find it more convenient to bother you with their question rather than to Google it for themselves.

lmgtfy.app

 

[Sarge]

Oxford Mail not only supporting the Save the 'sheaf campaign but also pointing out the owners ridiculous assertions regarding 'other' live music 'venues that are available!
despite being asked to comment both the owner and his architect agent have yet to respond

Town Hall, Sheldonian, Jacqueline du Pre, Hollywell etc have been 'suggested ' as alternative host venues for the kind of bands who play the 'sheaf by the owner /developer ... really? ... how far out of touch is the idiot?

Fury as Wheatsheaf owner suggests Town Hall as alternative music venue

MUSIC lovers fighting to save Oxford city centre’s last gig venue from closure, have accused the building’s owner of ‘a fundamental lack of…

www.oxfordmail.co.uk

 

[Sarge]

in a similarly ridiculous assertion as that the owner of the Wheatsheaf made regarding there being other music venues- why does he think 9 student rooms would be a good thing , when there's 64 new ones across the High street?

First look inside The Mitre after £16m revamp

A £16m project to renovate a historic city centre pub and provide new rooms for an Oxford University college has now been officially completed.

www.oxfordmail.co.uk

 

[OUFCGav]

Oxford Mail not only supporting the Save the 'sheaf campaign but also pointing out the owners ridiculous assertions regarding 'other' live music 'venues that are available!
despite being asked to comment both the owner and his architect agent have yet to respond

Town Hall, Sheldonian, Jacqueline du Pre, Hollywell etc have been 'suggested ' as alternative host venues for the kind of bands who play the 'sheaf by the owner /developer ... really? ... how far out of touch is the idiot?

Fury as Wheatsheaf owner suggests Town Hall as alternative music venue

MUSIC lovers fighting to save Oxford city centre’s last gig venue from closure, have accused the building’s owner of ‘a fundamental lack of…

www.oxfordmail.co.uk

Ah, but they did list the Jericho Tavern twice in the list provided so that is ok....

 

[Sheik djibouti]

in a similarly ridiculous assertion as that the owner of the Wheatsheaf made regarding there being other music venues- why does he think 9 student rooms would be a good thing , when there's 64 new ones across the High street?

First look inside The Mitre after £16m revamp

A £16m project to renovate a historic city centre pub and provide new rooms for an Oxford University college has now been officially completed.

www.oxfordmail.co.uk

Might this explain it?

 

[Wallop]

Online petition

Sign the Petition

Keeping live music and entertainment at the Wheatsheaf, Oxford

chng.it

 

[SteMerritt]

Sheaf Survey...

Wheatsheaf Customer Survey

Please tell us about your visits to The Wheatsheaf. Please base your answers on your experiences before COVID-19 restrictions impacted on social activity in March 2020. This is a brief questionnaire, which will only take up a few minutes to fill out. Your help here is important to us and very...

freeonlinesurveys.com

 

[SteMerritt]

@RyanioBirdio, are you hearing any more about getting shows going from within the industry? A lot are being arranged September / October, is there optimism things will be approaching normality by then?

 

[Wallop]

Just booked tickets to see Therapy? in November on their 30th (now called 31st) Anniversary Tour.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

@RyanioBirdio, are you hearing any more about getting shows going from within the industry? A lot are being arranged September / October, is there optimism things will be approaching normality by then?

It’s still pretty complicated, but the general consensus is that there’s basically no chance that anything being put on sale for late 2021 is happening as planned. Every tour being routed for late 2021 at present has got at least a single rescheduled hold pencilled in for early 2022, and some have even got secondary holds for late 2022. The people I know who work for booking agencies are flat out saying “There is NO WAY indoor shows are happening this year” while the people I know who work for the promoters are saying “Well.... we have to try.” More than anything these companies just need money in that they can sit on, so not putting events on sale isn’t really an option regardless of how likely they are to happen.

The main problem is going to be capacity. I don’t see a world where we’re anywhere close to what we used to have, or which features shows that aren’t limited capacity with mandatory mask wearing. When we do get to go to shows again they won’t be what we know and love. If you’re longing for the sweat box, shoulder to shoulder, spilling your pint while screaming the words style shows... I don’t think they’re even on the horizon yet, personally.

I need another shower beer.

 

[SteMerritt]

It’s still pretty complicated, but the general consensus is that there’s basically no chance that anything being put on sale for late 2021 is happening as planned. Every tour being routed for late 2021 at present has got at least a single rescheduled hold pencilled in for early 2022, and some have even got secondary holds for late 2022. The people I know who work for booking agencies are flat out saying “There is NO WAY indoor shows are happening this year” while the people I know who work for the promoters are saying “Well.... we have to try.” More than anything these companies just need money in that they can sit on, so not putting events on sale isn’t really an option regardless of how likely they are to happen.

The main problem is going to be capacity. I don’t see a world where we’re anywhere close to what we used to have, or which features shows that aren’t limited capacity with mandatory mask wearing. When we do get to go to shows again they won’t be what we know and love. If you’re longing for the sweat box, shoulder to shoulder, spilling your pint while screaming the words style shows... I don’t think they’re even on the horizon yet, personally.

I need another shower beer.

Thanks, that's about what I feared. Bloody depressing.

 

[Wallop]

Thanks, that's about what I feared. Bloody depressing.

So G’N’R at Tottenham’s stadium on 19 June looking a bit unlikely then

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Thanks, that's about what I feared. Bloody depressing.

It’s grim. I said a year ago on a conference call that I didn’t think we would go to another show before 2022 and everyone thought I was insane. I’m surprised (well, not really, but still) that there hasn’t been more investment in outdoor events. They’ve had a long time to run the rule over how outdoor venues could operate, assess them in terms of safety and work out the economics. I think like much of the world everybody has just buried their head in the sand and pretended it’ll sort itself out, so now we’re all stuck waiting for that to happen because the industry threw away the opportunity to change. Being proactive is usually seen as being hysterical or dramatic. It could never happen, you see. Not here. Not to us.

What I would add, and I think it’s important, is that people shouldn’t assume that a show taking place means it’s safe when the time comes. I know some of the people who run the biggest promotions companies and booking agencies in the country, and I will tell you this right now: they’ll put a show on and take your money without a single thought about whether or not half the crowd catches Covid and a few of those people die. They don’t give a flying f*ck about it. If they’re allowed to put on a show they’re going to do it, and they’ll worry about the risks later. Given that, I think it’s really wise that until the entire country is double vaccinated we don’t even think about the idea of gigs. The people in charge of them cannot be trusted to make them safe what so ever.

 

[SteMerritt]

It’s grim. I said a year ago on a conference call that I didn’t think we would go to another show before 2022 and everyone thought I was insane. I’m surprised (well, not really, but still) that there hasn’t been more investment in outdoor events. They’ve had a long time to run the rule over how outdoor venues could operate, assess them in terms of safety and work out the economics. I think like much of the world everybody has just buried their head in the sand and pretended it’ll sort itself out, so now we’re all stuck waiting for that to happen because the industry threw away the opportunity to change. Being proactive is usually seen as being hysterical or dramatic. It could never happen, you see. Not here. Not to us.

What I would add, and I think it’s important, is that people shouldn’t assume that a show taking place means it’s safe when the time comes. I know some of the people who run the biggest promotions companies and booking agencies in the country, and I will tell you this right now: they’ll put a show on and take your money without a single thought about whether or not half the crowd catches Covid and a few of those people die. They don’t give a flying f*ck about it. If they’re allowed to put on a show they’re going to do it, and they’ll worry about the risks later. Given that, I think it’s really wise that until the entire country is double vaccinated we don’t even think about the idea of gigs. The people in charge of them cannot be trusted to make them safe what so ever.

Is gig money just sitting and being held by the promoters? I'm guessing than none of my £40 to see The Reytons is actually going through to them because of potential refunds? Think I'll stick to band merch for a while.

 

[werthersoriginal]

It’s grim. I said a year ago on a conference call that I didn’t think we would go to another show before 2022 and everyone thought I was insane. I’m surprised (well, not really, but still) that there hasn’t been more investment in outdoor events. They’ve had a long time to run the rule over how outdoor venues could operate, assess them in terms of safety and work out the economics. I think like much of the world everybody has just buried their head in the sand and pretended it’ll sort itself out, so now we’re all stuck waiting for that to happen because the industry threw away the opportunity to change. Being proactive is usually seen as being hysterical or dramatic. It could never happen, you see. Not here. Not to us.

What I would add, and I think it’s important, is that people shouldn’t assume that a show taking place means it’s safe when the time comes. I know some of the people who run the biggest promotions companies and booking agencies in the country, and I will tell you this right now: they’ll put a show on and take your money without a single thought about whether or not half the crowd catches Covid and a few of those people die. They don’t give a flying f*ck about it. If they’re allowed to put on a show they’re going to do it, and they’ll worry about the risks later. Given that, I think it’s really wise that until the entire country is double vaccinated we don’t even think about the idea of gigs. The people in charge of them cannot be trusted to make them safe what so ever.

Even if everyone has been vaccinated? That’s depressing. I’ve booked a few things but only £8 small gigs. I guess I’ve reserved my spot when they do happen.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Is gig money just sitting and being held by the promoters? I'm guessing than none of my £40 to see The Reytons is actually going through to them because of potential refunds? Think I'll stick to band merch for a while.

Yep - bands get nothing at present. All just sitting in the promoter pot. Bands are currently surviving solely on commerce. It’s going to be interesting to see how many mid-tier and below bands actually survive this.

Even if everyone has been vaccinated? That’s depressing. I’ve booked a few things but only £8 small gigs. I guess I’ve reserved my spot when they do happen.

We still have no idea what the double vaccination actually means until it’s done. Venues are the absolute worst environment for a virus, in terms of it being perfect for transmission. Mutations, severity of symptoms, frequency of transmission between touring members (one person on a tour bus gets a cold and that’s it, you’re all getting it, so throw in Covid and it’s chaos) etc. So many unknowns. Live music in an indoor setting - especially in venues smaller than an arena - really is the absolute last thing that’s coming back in full. If and when music as we know and remember it is back without restriction, the world is completely normal. It’s bottom of the pile. Dead last.

 

[Wallop]

Yep - bands get nothing at present. All just sitting in the promoter pot. Bands are currently surviving solely on commerce. It’s going to be interesting to see how many mid-tier and below bands actually survive this.


We still have no idea what the double vaccination actually means until it’s done. Venues are the absolute worst environment for a virus, in terms of it being perfect for transmission. Mutations, severity of symptoms, frequency of transmission between touring members (one person on a tour bus gets a cold and that’s it, you’re all getting it, so throw in Covid and it’s chaos) etc. So many unknowns. Live music in an indoor setting - especially in venues smaller than an arena - really is the absolute last thing that’s coming back in full. If and when music as we know and remember it is back without restriction, the world is completely normal. It’s bottom of the pile. Dead last.

You’ll know a lot more than me but if so why does the Government advice state that nightclubs will reopen on 21 June?

 

[RyanioBirdio]

You’ll know a lot more than me but if so why does the Government advice state that nightclubs will reopen on 21 June?

In essence: a nightclub has limited running costs and can be quite easily segregated. You can put people in spaced out areas and keep them apart, limit punters to whatever extent you wish and your only real cost is electricity and a few staff. People can have a drink and a little dance (my favourite is the invisible lasso, by the way), and it’s a bit more manageable overall. When you go to a gig it’s not only a different experience with different behavioural patterns, but you’ve got several bands on a stage made up of multiple people with crew, travel costs, equipment and so on, and they all need paying for. You can’t get enough people in to cover those sorts of costs, and the experience would be crap for the consumer so it likely wouldn’t catch on. That is the main reason it’s going to be last through the door - the very makeup of a full-on gig over a night out in a club is vastly different on every level. Live music is a different beast both culturally and economically.

That said, what you mention about the current government timeline is exactly why I said what I did previously. If these people are told they’re allowed to just open the doors and pretend nothing happened, they’re going to do it. Nobody will give it a second thought and it’ll be carnage, people will get sick and pass it on and some people will die, and the whole industry will shut down again within weeks. They just had crowds in at the cricket overseas recently and despite that being outdoors it led to spikes and they’ve had to shut it all down again, so if they let people go from 0-100 in the blink of an eye it won’t last long. Reduced capacity with distancing measures and mask wearing might happen at some point, but then we’re back to the economics and the experience being rubbish. Nobody is genuinely of the belief that we’ll go to a gig in 2021 that’s like what we know; the jostling at the bar, the people brushing past you every 10 seconds, the queues at the bogs, the swell and crush of the pit, the sweating on each other, the singing in your mates’ face etc. That’s just unthinkable.

BUT. If some absolute numbskull at government level leaves the door open for even a few days, the promoters will be in without a second thought. Absolutely nobody on the booking side thinks there’s a chance anything can happen, but with this lot in charge... god only knows. If it happens then nobody will be more shocked than the bands themselves, and it won’t last long before someone realises what the hell they’ve done. Realistically complete double vaccination of the entire adult population, another wave to ride over winter and then 2022 could and should be a different beast. That’s broadly the plan, but I’ve given up trying to second guess the carnage. It could all change in a heartbeat.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Corey Taylor (Slipknot / Stone Sour vocalist) has just announced a ‘socially distanced’ US tour for his solo record this summer. I notice though that it’s mostly middle America - no sign of anything in places like LA, NY, DC etc. This is what it says regarding what the gigs will look like / how they’ll operate:

“Be advised, that these shows, regardless of State guidelines, COVID Health Protocols Shall Be Strictly Enforced By Purchaser for all Employees, Patrons and Artists Throughout Entirety Of Event. All Patrons Are Required To Wear Masks At All Times When NOT In Their Pod or At Their Table / Seat. Patrons Shall Be Required To Practice Social Distancing At All Times When NOT In Their Pod or At Their Table / Seat. There will be Temperature Checks at Entry. Patrons Included In Each Pod or Table Shall Be Required To Enter Venue Together.”

Seems that they’ll sell group tickets and you’ll have to sit there in your mask the whole time, ten feet apart from any other group. It’ll be like a night out at bloody Jongleurs, only with extra space between tables. This will likely be the norm for a while, but the shows will have to go on sale in this manner to begin with and be advertised as such from the off to stand a chance of happening. If the gigs are being sold as general admission with no mention of any form of restrictions what so ever then I would imagine they’ll just keep getting postponed for a while yet

 

[Wallop]

Corey Taylor (Slipknot / Stone Sour vocalist) has just announced a ‘socially distanced’ US tour for his solo record this summer. I notice though that it’s mostly middle America - no sign of anything in places like LA, NY, DC etc. This is what it says regarding what the gigs will look like / how they’ll operate:

“Be advised, that these shows, regardless of State guidelines, COVID Health Protocols Shall Be Strictly Enforced By Purchaser for all Employees, Patrons and Artists Throughout Entirety Of Event. All Patrons Are Required To Wear Masks At All Times When NOT In Their Pod or At Their Table / Seat. Patrons Shall Be Required To Practice Social Distancing At All Times When NOT In Their Pod or At Their Table / Seat. There will be Temperature Checks at Entry. Patrons Included In Each Pod or Table Shall Be Required To Enter Venue Together.”

Seems that they’ll sell group tickets and you’ll have to sit there in your mask the whole time, ten feet apart from any other group. It’ll be like a night out at bloody Jongleurs, only with extra space between tables. This will likely be the norm for a while, but the shows will have to go on sale in this manner to begin with and be advertised as such from the off to stand a chance of happening. If the gigs are being sold as general admission with no mention of any form of restrictions what so ever then I would imagine they’ll just keep getting postponed for a while yet

Quite appropriate for Slipknot.