National News The Brexit Thread 🇬🇧🇪🇺

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

If certain folk can generalise that some people are having issues then it is fair game to generalise that plenty are not.

It`s business it`s happened for years, things change and businesses adapt and change.

Just as a small example all those hundreds of thousands of former miners, steelworkers and other heavy industry employee`s that saw their jobs outsourced to China/India or anywhere with cheap(er) labour/production costs

Another example of your lack of nuanced thinking. Unlike those heavy industry jobs that were lost to countries with lower labour and production costs, there are hundreds of small and medium companies having to move jobs (and costs) into Europe because they now need to have a base there. Because of the complexities and administration brought on by Brexit.

It’s not because it’s cheaper or more efficient per se - we simply have no choice in the short to medium term. Maybe in the long term as the EU bloc is our biggest trading partner and that is how we will adapt and change. We are British companies who want to employ people and create wealth in the UK. Even with your ‘the strong will survive’ mentality - is that how you really foresaw Bexit?
 
You really have a problem with dressing up old news as post-Brexit positives don't you 😂
Seriously Steve, I was about to post the same sentiments. Two and three year old lazy links and no acknowledgement that things might not be going swimmingly for everyone and that’s down to constant change and evolution, not a poorly negotiated last minute fudge.
 
You really have a problem with dressing up old news as post-Brexit positives don't you 😂

Post Brexit vote.... clearly stated.
Thought a Mod might notice the detail.... :D

The sky is still there.
Medicines are still arriving.
The shops are not empty.
Barring Covid..... not much difference for the overwhelming majority.
 
Seriously Steve, I was about to post the same sentiments. Two and three year old lazy links and no acknowledgement that things might not be going swimmingly for everyone and that’s down to constant change and evolution, not a poorly negotiated last minute fudge.

The links are to things that happened since the referendum vote ... I can`t change the date.
Some people are having problems that maybe short or longer term..... that`s life. Happens every day in normal times.

Its only been 7 weeks since the new "rules" came in.
The EU have been embedding theirs for 30 years.......... it`ll take some sorting out.
 
Another example of your lack of nuanced thinking. Unlike those heavy industry jobs that were lost to countries with lower labour and production costs, there are hundreds of small and medium companies having to move jobs (and costs) into Europe because they now need to have a base there. Because of the complexities and administration brought on by Brexit.

It’s not because it’s cheaper or more efficient per se - we simply have no choice in the short to medium term. Maybe in the long term as the EU bloc is our biggest trading partner and that is how we will adapt and change. We are British companies who want to employ people and create wealth in the UK. Even with your ‘the strong will survive’ mentality - is that how you really foresaw Bexit?

It was never going to be easy however that is not sufficient reason not to do it.
Does setting up an operation/business arm in Europe really come in cheaper than "doing the admin"?
 
It was never going to be easy however that is not sufficient reason not to do it.
Does setting up an operation/business arm in Europe really come in cheaper than "doing the admin"?
Yes and dealing with the issues of moving goods in and out of the country!!!! You were quick to research some articles from two and three years ago - have a poke around at the number of companies having to do this and worse, being advised to by the DTI.

It might ‘only’ affect a few thousand people at present but those people pay taxes and spend within the economy. No problem though, most people (ie you) will be fine.
 
One thing that I don’t quite understand in this setting up of distribution hubs in Europe is why it should cost jobs in the UK. I get that a workplace physically located in Europe can offer a company a cost effective route to it’s customers, but presumably these are needed as the customers in the EU still want the UK product.

So if the product is still wanted and the company can deliver to it’s customers in a timely manner with less red tape, then presumably the production lines will still be working at the same capacity and the amount of product being shipped remains the same.

If that is the case, why would fewer people be needed to make and move it?
 
So if the product is still wanted and the company can deliver to it’s customers in a timely manner with less red tape, then presumably the production lines will still be working at the same capacity and the amount of product being shipped remains the same.

If that is the case, why would fewer people be needed to make and move it?

The production lines are probably in Asia.

I'm sensing it's more the warehousing & distribution which will be scaled back in UK and replaced by operations within the EU.

Perhaps not on a massive scale and these jobs tend not the best paying roles but likely to impact youngsters and casual workers more.

It's a continual chipping away at the UK economy...
 
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"Yes and dealing with the issues of moving goods in and out of the country!!!! You were quick to research some articles from two and three years ago - have a poke around at the number of companies having to do this and worse, being advised to by the DTI.

It might ‘only’ affect a few thousand people at present but those people pay taxes and spend within the economy. No problem though, most people (ie you) will be fine.

Whichever way the result/deal/negotiation went there would be those who lose and those who gained.
I remember being "eased" out of a well paid job on £16 an hour because the employer could get EU citizens to do it for £9 an hour.
Those same citizens were happy to live on site in mobile homes, owned by the business and rented by them.
Effectively the skilled, tax paying UK staff were replaced by cheap labour - I and others "lost".
The government "lost" as the tax take decreased - cheap labour pays less tax, spends less locally etc etc.

And so life goes on ..... decisions out of our control impact our lives positively or negatively but life rolls on.....
 
One thing that I don’t quite understand in this setting up of distribution hubs in Europe is why it should cost jobs in the UK. I get that a workplace physically located in Europe can offer a company a cost effective route to it’s customers, but presumably these are needed as the customers in the EU still want the UK product.

So if the product is still wanted and the company can deliver to it’s customers in a timely manner with less red tape, then presumably the production lines will still be working at the same capacity and the amount of product being shipped remains the same.

If that is the case, why would fewer people be needed to make and move it?
Good question and one that maybe applies if you manufacturing everything in the UK. We aren’t manufacturing everything we distribute in the UK - it’s just not possible. The problems occur if you are manufacturing all or part of the products in the EU and then reshipping directly to customers or to trade wholesalers.

We’ve decided, for the overall health of the company, that effectively importing and re-exporting is just not practicable. Therefore we cant utilise all of the staff currently employed in the UK warehousing operation and are setting up an operation in Holland. The loss of those jobs hopefully increases the security of those who remain but creates jobs in the EU - and they, of course, are happy to have us.
 
Perhaps they could go and pick daffodils?


Turns out the flower/fruit/veg pickers weren’t “taking jobs” or undercutting our own workforce after all.

Fancy doing it for £8.72 an hour?

They most certainly are undercutting which is what FOM brings....... if you can get folk to do a job for peanuts why would you pay someone a decent wage?
Ergo those on peanuts pay less tax into the pot but are entitled to all that comes with it.
I`ll take a guess that most of Varfell farms staff are living on site in mobiles all so you can buy a bunch of daffs from Tesco for £2.
 
Fancy doing it for £8.72 an hour?

They most certainly are undercutting which is what FOM brings....... if you can get folk to do a job for peanuts why would you pay someone a decent wage?
Ergo those on peanuts pay less tax into the pot but are entitled to all that comes with it.
I`ll take a guess that most of Varfell farms staff are living on site in mobiles all so you can buy a bunch of daffs from Tesco for £2.
Done harder work than that for no money at all having grown up on a dairy farm. It’s been known for years that we wouldn’t fill these jobs with locals.

Correct regarding living conditions if it’s anything like those that pick for SEF down in Cornwall (Good friends with one of their agronomists).
 
Good question and one that maybe applies if you manufacturing everything in the UK. We aren’t manufacturing everything we distribute in the UK - it’s just not possible. The problems occur if you are manufacturing all or part of the products in the EU and then reshipping directly to customers or to trade wholesalers.

We’ve decided, for the overall health of the company, that effectively importing and re-exporting is just not practicable. Therefore we cant utilise all of the staff currently employed in the UK warehousing operation and are setting up an operation in Holland. The loss of those jobs hopefully increases the security of those who remain but creates jobs in the EU - and they, of course, are happy to have us.
Thanks for the reply - I can see the logic in that.

While I don't pretend to know the exact circumstances for you or for any other firm, my first thought was that type of rationalisation is something that would be considered by any company growing it's business with the EU member states and may well have happened at some point with or without brexit (but that's probably a topic for another day.....)
 
Thanks for the reply - I can see the logic in that.

While I don't pretend to know the exact circumstances for you or for any other firm, my first thought was that type of rationalisation is something that would be considered by any company growing it's business with the EU member states and may well have happened at some point with or without brexit (but that's probably a topic for another day.....)
Also a good question and I couldn’t say for sure that we wouldn’t have one day moved the business but we weren’t considering that option when there was free movement of goods. There no longer is, however it is dressed up. And we are by no means the only company doing this.

It‘s just a different perspective to the ‘well it doesn’t affect me’ and ‘there will always be winners and losers’ shown by some here. It’s a problem faced by many companies who primary trade partners and customers are in the EU.
 
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The links are to things that happened since the referendum vote ... I can`t change the date.
Some people are having problems that maybe short or longer term..... that`s life. Happens every day in normal times.

Its only been 7 weeks since the new "rules" came in.
The EU have been embedding theirs for 30 years.......... it`ll take some sorting out.
'Its only been 7 weeks since the new "rules" came in.'

You should have used the inverted commas with the word new. Very few rules that are causing the problems are new. We are simply having to comply with the old rules that applied to all third countries. We have just decide as a country we want to operate by these old rules rather than the old rules that apply to EU nations.

It's not the EU it's us.
 
That's actually another point on my "don't quite understand" list. The "new" rules aren't really new at all - any company that imported or exported to any country that wasn't in the EU already had systems in place to undertake these transactions and so those procedures only needed to be applied to EU exports. A bit simplistic I know, but that is the nub of the matter

Having had a chat with one of my old work colleagues, it would seem that the rules are (or were initially) being very strictly applied to almost all shipments (especially at both ends of the Channel Tunnel) whereas other countries tend to check just a percentage of the freight - this obviously depends upon what goods you are declaring in your documents. Totally understandable, as many of those involved in the clearing of the goods would never have had to process the extra documentation involved, so would probably be working down a checklist rather than having the experience of what is or is not acceptable.

Bit of a culture shock to anyone that only dealt with the EU though.
 
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